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Re: Tango, foxtrot, charlie



Máirín Duffy wrote:
> For everyone's benefit, we had a discussion about this on irc, attached.
>
> ~m


Attached is the log part 2. I'll be writing up a summary tonight. :)

~m
mizmo__ warren: ill email this log so people can get a background
warren mizmo__, you can administrate the list, so you can post an over-length mail
mizmo__ okie
andreasn mizmo__: with all my crappy explanations and all? :)
dfong hehe, it's all there...but makes it easier for the rest of us (who wasn't part of the conversation) to figure out what's going on
* warren nods toward dfong 
mizmo__ andreasn: well where pepole are confused we can flesh it out in the thread
* ignacio (n=ivazquez fedora/ignacio) has joined #fedora-art
* ignacio would just like to say that Tango is the ultimate proof that taste is subjective
mizmo__ hehe what do you mean by that ignacio?
andreasn wow, I just found some foxtrot icons in the small sizes, some dude made them and posted them as a comment in my blog
ignacio My brother and I had a look at the Tango icons the other say, and we both came to the same conclusion...
ignacio They're fugly as hell.
ignacio Anyways, I talked to my brother a bit about the Art project and he should hopefully be sending a message to the list within a couple of days.
mizmo__ ignacio: people tend to love them or hate them i think, i haven't seen much in the middle
mizmo__ ignacio: they are nice, just not my taste personally
mizmo__ ignacio: fabulous, i look forward to hearing from him
halfline so you don't love them or hate them?
halfline just somewhere in the middle?
* mizmo__ kicks halfline
mizmo__ :)
warren fugly, heh.
mizmo__ halfline: i can appreciate the fact they are rendered with a lot of skill, but lets say i do not love the rendering
ignacio He showed me a couple of small samples already and I was impressed by them.
mizmo__ i dont want this to turn into a tango bash fest
mizmo__ it's more like, both from what i've seen, fedora developers and users appreciate hvaing their own identity when it comes to aesthetics
ignacio The Tango icons look like they have had a lot of work put into them, but just a bit short on skill.
mizmo__ maybe agreeing upon the metaphors used, for example, would be more productive and meet the goals tango is trying to meet
mizmo__ because if you agree on a metaphor, you're not locked into a particular aesthetic
mizmo__ and when you lock people into an aesthetic, further more, it becomes much easier for the icons to become 'dated' looking
andreasn btw, if you have any suggestions on how we could make the guidelines better, like if some of the palette colors suck
andreasn please tell us
andreasn they are not set in stone in any way
dfong mizmo__ the metaphors was one of the things i was hoping to adopt from Tango...it would also help to provide a consistent way of thinking with users...
mizmo__ andreasn: it's not the palette colors specifically as its just the entire aesthetic.
* dfong nod
mizmo__ andreasn: what i think would be better is like what dfong is suggesting - guidelines for the icon metaphors
mizmo__ andreasn: because i think (i hope) the whole point is to make the linux desktop across distros easier to use
andreasn but one problem still remains, what style should isv's use for their icons?
mizmo__ andreasn: the icon metaphor i think is really more the meat of the usability issue than the actual aesthetic appearance
mizmo__ andreasn: isv's can use whichever style they want.
mizmo__ andreasn: if they want to use tango and that's the standard, then that is fine by me but they should have a choice
mizmo__ andreasn: if we (fedora) want to have our own look, we'll deal with the inconsistentcy. we'd like the option to provide our own artwork for 'ISVs' as well though (i could see us providing artwork for apps that are at least within core if not extras as well)
mizmo__ i was unaware that the specification did not account for customizing app icons
mizmo__ (before speaking with you in here today)
andreasn yeah, well, it was the inconsitency aspect I was worried about
mizmo__ andreasn: if it's decided by The Powers That Be that ISVs will follow the tango style by default, we'll handle the inconsistency ourselves
andreasn mizmo__: ok, cool
mizmo__ andreasn: i think everybody agrees though that the spec is great and we'd love to interoperate with that to make it easy for people to switch their icon themes
mizmo__ ive not heard anything to the contrary of that anyway
warren mizmo__, (might need to post more logs to the list again)

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