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Re: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 69, Issue 5



Hi Guys,
I have a proposal. In my view this DVD is too complex to be made universal for various types of machines. Suppose the good old Live CD is furnished with a reference to the Fedora Project website and there to be installed an expert system advising the users depending on their machine, their periphery and their application goals what to install what is better to install instead of what and what is not entirely advisable to be installed. How to make a full-featured high-speed desktop from ground zero (from the live CD on formatted HD) in a couple of hours, etc.
Things like that.
Just a proposal.
Best regards
Christo Petkov


--- On Fri, 11/6/09, fedora-desktop-list-request redhat com <fedora-desktop-list-request redhat com> wrote:

From: fedora-desktop-list-request redhat com <fedora-desktop-list-request redhat com>
Subject: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 69, Issue 5
To: fedora-desktop-list redhat com
Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 12:40 PM

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    fedora-desktop-list redhat com

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (David Zeuthen)
   2. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Bill Nottingham)
   3. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (David Zeuthen)
   4. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Adam Williamson)
   5. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Matthias Clasen)
   6. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (drago01)
   7. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (David Zeuthen)
   8. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (Seth Vidal)
   9. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Lars Herrmann)
  10. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Bill Nottingham)
  11. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (drago01)
  12. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (David Zeuthen)
  13. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (Seth Vidal)
  14. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (Lars Herrmann)
  15. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Matthias Clasen)
  16. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Paul W. Frields)
  17. Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff (Nicu Buculei)
  18. Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff (onkar mirajkar)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:20:13 -0500
From: David Zeuthen <davidz redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: sundaram fedoraproject org,    Discussions about development for the
    Fedora desktop    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257445213 15710 18 camel localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> The image size is 1022 M.

This is likely too big, remember drive manufacturers don't really use
units like KiB MiB or GiB - they use 1K = 1000, 1M = 1,000,000 and 1G =
1,000,000,000 - e.g.. the SI units.

It seems to me that most 1GB USB keys have a size of 1GB = 1,000M =
1,000,000,000 bytes. Some are 1024MB (1024,000,000,000 bytes), some may
be a bit smaller (e.g. "value-adds" like the Sandisk U3 "CD-ROM") while
some may actually be 1024 MiB (1,099,511,627,776 bytes). It varies.

It would probably be helpful to do a quick study of actual sizes of 1GB
USB sticks - we may end up wanting to do a 990 MB (990,000,000,000
bytes) image or something so the image works on as many USB sticks as
possible.

    David




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:24:54 -0500
From: Bill Nottingham <notting redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20091105182453 GA16392 nostromo devel redhat com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

David Zeuthen (davidz redhat com) said:
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > The image size is 1022 M.
>
> This is likely too big, remember drive manufacturers don't really use
> units like KiB MiB or GiB - they use 1K = 1000, 1M = 1,000,000 and 1G =
> 1,000,000,000 - e.g. the SI units.
>
> It seems to me that most 1GB USB keys have a size of 1GB = 1,000M =
> 1,000,000,000 bytes. Some are 1024MB (1024,000,000,000 bytes), some may
> be a bit smaller (e.g. "value-adds" like the Sandisk U3 "CD-ROM") while
> some may actually be 1024 MiB (1,099,511,627,776 bytes). It varies.

Moreover, the closer you get to the full size, the less space you'll
have for any overlay.

Bill



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:35:26 -0500
From: David Zeuthen <davidz redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257446126 15710 30 camel localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 13:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> David Zeuthen (davidz redhat com) said:
> > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > > The image size is 1022 M.
> >
> > This is likely too big, remember drive manufacturers don't really use
> > units like KiB MiB or GiB - they use 1K = 1000, 1M = 1,000,000 and 1G =
> > 1,000,000,000 - e.g. the SI units.
> >
> > It seems to me that most 1GB USB keys have a size of 1GB = 1,000M =
> > 1,000,000,000 bytes. Some are 1024MB (1024,000,000,000 bytes), some may
> > be a bit smaller (e.g. "value-adds" like the Sandisk U3 "CD-ROM") while
> > some may actually be 1024 MiB (1,099,511,627,776 bytes). It varies.
>
> Moreover, the closer you get to the full size, the less space you'll
> have for any overlay.

Good point. A quick search on the Internet suggests that 2GB sticks can
be had for < $10. So maybe we should just bite the bullet and target 2GB
keys and do a 1.7GB (1,700,000,000 bytes) image leaving ~300MB free for
the overlay.

Then leaves both wiggle-room and also enables us to include *compelling*
stuff like Ogg Theora videos featuring Shadowman etc etc.

    David




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:55:01 -0800
From: Adam Williamson <awilliam redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257450902 2316 11 camel adam local net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 13:35 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 13:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > David Zeuthen (davidz redhat com) said:
> > > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > > > The image size is 1022 M.
> > >
> > > This is likely too big, remember drive manufacturers don't really use
> > > units like KiB MiB or GiB - they use 1K = 1000, 1M = 1,000,000 and 1G =
> > > 1,000,000,000 - e.g. the SI units.
> > >
> > > It seems to me that most 1GB USB keys have a size of 1GB = 1,000M =
> > > 1,000,000,000 bytes. Some are 1024MB (1024,000,000,000 bytes), some may
> > > be a bit smaller (e.g. "value-adds" like the Sandisk U3 "CD-ROM") while
> > > some may actually be 1024 MiB (1,099,511,627,776 bytes). It varies.
> >
> > Moreover, the closer you get to the full size, the less space you'll
> > have for any overlay.
>
> Good point. A quick search on the Internet suggests that 2GB sticks can
> be had for < $10. So maybe we should just bite the bullet and target 2GB
> keys and do a 1.7GB (1,700,000,000 bytes) image leaving ~300MB free for
> the overlay.
>
> Then leaves both wiggle-room and also enables us to include *compelling*
> stuff like Ogg Theora videos featuring Shadowman etc etc.

Personally I think one of the nice things about a live CD image is it
creates a good restriction for building a nice focused working system in
a reasonable amount of space. 1GB would more or less keep that; 2GB is
starting to introduce an awful lot of wiggle room for not caring about
including useless crap.

And remember, large USB keys may be cheap as chips nowadays but
bandwidth ain't, always. Aren't there still people in Australia with
absurd caps like 10GB/month?

I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
image 2GB big'.

--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:56:42 -0500
From: Matthias Clasen <mclasen redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257451002 1875 2 camel planemask>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:

> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
> image 2GB big'.
>

The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:05:30 +0100
From: drago01 <drago01 gmail com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
    <f6ca9fed0911051205i453be449jeb0ec9090c756505 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Matthias Clasen <mclasen redhat com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
>> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
>> image 2GB big'.
>>
>
> The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
> Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.

Finally we can move away from the 1990s (CDs), but yeah I agree
besides OO.org I can't think of an app that I really miss on the live
media.

Just because we do have more space available does not mean that we
have to fill it with random crap.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:51 -0500
From: David Zeuthen <davidz redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257453291 17978 12 camel localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Personally I think one of the nice things about a live CD image is it
> creates a good restriction for building a nice focused working system in
> a reasonable amount of space. 1GB would more or less keep that; 2GB is
> starting to introduce an awful lot of wiggle room for not caring about
> including useless crap.

Nah, this is a bad reason - and if it's the case we're already doomed.

(FWIW, I don't think it's the case - I trust Matthias and other Live CD
desktop maintainers to put only sensible stuff on our images.)

Also, no-one says we _must_ include useless crap or even use all of the
space. And no-one says the space we're going to use is to be used for
software. I've advocated earlier that we should try and promote things
like Ogg Theora. For example, we could include

  http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/

on the media. In my view, that would make Fedora a lot more appealing.

> And remember, large USB keys may be cheap as chips nowadays but
> bandwidth ain't, always. Aren't there still people in Australia with
> absurd caps like 10GB/month?

They do have mirrors in Australia.

> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
> image 2GB big'.

No one says the desktop image should be "our smallest
'complete-out-of-the-box' image". In fact, I think it would be a mistake
to say it should be.

Also: Remember the days before live CDs? Back then, about 3+ years ago,
we didn't have any problems asking people to download a whopping six
CDs..

F13 will be released in 2010.

     David




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:37:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Seth Vidal <skvidal fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <alpine LFD 2 00 0911051536440 9192 localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed



On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, David Zeuthen wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> Personally I think one of the nice things about a live CD image is it
>> creates a good restriction for building a nice focused working system in
>> a reasonable amount of space. 1GB would more or less keep that; 2GB is
>> starting to introduce an awful lot of wiggle room for not caring about
>> including useless crap.
>
> Nah, this is a bad reason - and if it's the case we're already doomed.
>
> (FWIW, I don't think it's the case - I trust Matthias and other Live CD
> desktop maintainers to put only sensible stuff on our images.)
>
> Also, no-one says we _must_ include useless crap or even use all of the
> space. And no-one says the space we're going to use is to be used for
> software. I've advocated earlier that we should try and promote things
> like Ogg Theora. For example, we could include
>
http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/
>
> on the media. In my view, that would make Fedora a lot more appealing.
>
>> And remember, large USB keys may be cheap as chips nowadays but
>> bandwidth ain't, always. Aren't there still people in Australia with
>> absurd caps like 10GB/month?
>
> They do have mirrors in Australia.
>
>> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
>> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
>> image 2GB big'.
>
> No one says the desktop image should be "our smallest
> 'complete-out-of-the-box' image". In fact, I think it would be a mistake
> to say it should be.
>
> Also: Remember the days before live CDs? Back then, about 3+ years ago,
> we didn't have any problems asking people to download a whopping six
> CDs.
>

Well, to be fair we didn't tell them download 6 cds. We told them, if they
were bandwidth-restricted to download the boot.iso and boot and install
via the net talking to a local mirror.


not disputing any other points - but it's not like the super-small image
has ever been 6-cds.

-sv



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:02 +0100
From: Lars Herrmann <herrmann redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257454022 3222 8636 camel x61 sulz>
Content-Type: text/plain

Am Donnerstag, den 05.11.2009, 14:56 -0500 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
> > functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
> > image 2GB big'.
> >
>
> The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
> Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.

But isn't this just because of the 3 million language packages
provided ? Could the size kept small by providing uni-language or
language-group spins ?

Just a thought

Lars



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:50:01 -0500
From: Bill Nottingham <notting redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20091105205000 GA2428 nostromo devel redhat com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Lars Herrmann (herrmann redhat com) said:
> But isn't this just because of the 3 million language packages
> provided ? Could the size kept small by providing uni-language or
> language-group spins ?

That explodes the testing matrix, though. (And makes something
that needs to support some superset of languages a mess.)

Bill



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:50:17 +0100
From: drago01 <drago01 gmail com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
    <f6ca9fed0911051250y76f42f9ap7dc230eed7c687fe mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Lars Herrmann <herrmann redhat com> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 05.11.2009, 14:56 -0500 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
>> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
>> > functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
>> > image 2GB big'.
>> >
>>
>> The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
>> Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.
>
> But isn't this just because of the 3 million language packages
> provided ? Could the size kept small by providing uni-language or
> language-group spins ?
>
> Just a thought

Asking users to install random language packs isn't a good user
experience, and if the only reason for that is "we still don't
acknowledge that we are in the 21st century ...."



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:52:28 -0500
From: David Zeuthen <davidz redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257454348 17978 16 camel localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 15:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> > Also: Remember the days before live CDs? Back then, about 3+ years ago,
> > we didn't have any problems asking people to download a whopping six
> > CDs.
> >
>
> Well, to be fair we didn't tell them download 6 cds. We told them, if they
> were bandwidth-restricted to download the boot.iso and boot and install
> via the net talking to a local mirror.

Right, that's true. I remember doing that a lot. IIRC, if choosing a
minimal install the first two CDs would suffice (if the stars were
properly aligned I think - ISTR that it broke at one point).

Anyway, people can still do that, right? (honest question, not trolling.
I don't really know; these days I never use anything but the Live CD to
install.)

Thanks,
David



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:56:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Seth Vidal <skvidal fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <alpine LFD 2 00 0911051556170 9192 localhost localdomain>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed



On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, David Zeuthen wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 15:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
>>> Also: Remember the days before live CDs? Back then, about 3+ years ago,
>>> we didn't have any problems asking people to download a whopping six
>>> CDs.
>>>
>>
>> Well, to be fair we didn't tell them download 6 cds. We told them, if they
>> were bandwidth-restricted to download the boot.iso and boot and install
>> via the net talking to a local mirror.
>
> Right, that's true. I remember doing that a lot. IIRC, if choosing a
> minimal install the first two CDs would suffice (if the stars were
> properly aligned I think - ISTR that it broke at one point).
>
> Anyway, people can still do that, right? (honest question, not trolling.
> I don't really know; these days I never use anything but the Live CD to
> install.)

yep. In f11 it's called netinst.

Fedora-11-i386-netinst..iso

for example.

it's 177MB. Which is pretty light weight. It has stage2 on it iirc.

-sv



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:58:45 +0100
From: Lars Herrmann <herrmann redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257454725 3222 8695 camel x61 sulz>
Content-Type: text/plain

Am Donnerstag, den 05.11.2009, 21:50 +0100 schrieb drago01:
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Lars Herrmann <herrmann redhat com> wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, den 05.11.2009, 14:56 -0500 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
> >> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
> >> > functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
> >> > image 2GB big'.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
> >> Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.
> >
> > But isn't this just because of the 3 million language packages
> > provided ? Could the size kept small by providing uni-language or
> > language-group spins ?
> >
> > Just a thought
>
> Asking users to install random language packs isn't a good user
> experience, and if the only reason for that is "we still don't
> acknowledge that we are in the 21st century ...."
>

The point is that it in fact *is* annoying that a significant chunk of
space goes to totally irrelevant packages. I am typically installing 3
languages on my system and I am sure this represents a tiny fraction of
the user base. North of 90% will never ever use more than one language.
And they will know which one they need prior to downloading ;)

Having a button in the distro to "add a language" is a useful feature
anyway - it's a bit of a pain today if you want to add a language later
and have to find out which packages to add. Same goes for removing.

But I'm not aware of all implications of course ...

Lars



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:20:30 -0500
From: Matthias Clasen <mclasen redhat com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1257456030 2589 0 camel planemask>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 21:47 +0100, Lars Herrmann wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 05.11.2009, 14:56 -0500 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
> > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 11:55 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
> > > functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
> > > image 2GB big'.
> > >
> >
> > The biggest gap in terms of 'complete-out-of-the-box' is OpenOffice.
> > Including that brings us up to around 850M or so.
>
> But isn't this just because of the 3 million language packages
> provided ? Could the size kept small by providing uni-language or
> language-group spins ?
>
> Just a thought
>

I did that experiment back in August. Here is what I wrote back then:

> Replacing abiword with the entire openoffice suite blows the iso
> size up to 825M.
>
> Replacing abiword with just oowriter still blows the iso size up
> to 820M.
>
> This is without any openoffice lang packs.






------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:56:29 -0500
From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster gmail com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: fedora-desktop-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20091105225629 GC2894 victoria internal frields org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 01:35:26PM -0500, David Zeuthen wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 13:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > David Zeuthen (davidz redhat com) said:
> > > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > > > The image size is 1022 M.
> > >
> > > This is likely too big, remember drive manufacturers don't really use
> > > units like KiB MiB or GiB - they use 1K = 1000, 1M = 1,000,000 and 1G =
> > > 1,000,000,000 - e.g. the SI units.
> > >
> > > It seems to me that most 1GB USB keys have a size of 1GB = 1,000M =
> > > 1,000,000,000 bytes. Some are 1024MB (1024,000,000,000 bytes), some may
> > > be a bit smaller (e.g. "value-adds" like the Sandisk U3 "CD-ROM") while
> > > some may actually be 1024 MiB (1,099,511,627,776 bytes). It varies.
> >
> > Moreover, the closer you get to the full size, the less space you'll
> > have for any overlay.
>
> Good point. A quick search on the Internet suggests that 2GB sticks can
> be had for < $10. So maybe we should just bite the bullet and target 2GB
> keys and do a 1.7GB (1,700,000,000 bytes) image leaving ~300MB free for
> the overlay.
>
> Then leaves both wiggle-room and also enables us to include *compelling*
> stuff like Ogg Theora videos featuring Shadowman etc etc.

The price differences between 1GB and 2GB sticks seem minimal (and you
can find some 2GB cheaper than 1GB, of course).  I lobbied purposely
with the Red Hat Summit organizers to make sure we gave out Fedora on
2GB keys so that we could have a sizable key.

--
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
  irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 11:10:14 +0200
From: Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora nicubunu ro>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD:  diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4AF3E7F6 9070106 nicubunu ro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 11/05/2009 10:34 PM, David Zeuthen wrote:
>
> Also, no-one says we _must_ include useless crap or even use all of the
> space. And no-one says the space we're going to use is to be used for
> software. I've advocated earlier that we should try and promote things
> like Ogg Theora. For example, we could include
>
>    http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/

+ 1 million

>
>> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
>> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
>> image 2GB big'.
>
> No one says the desktop image should be "our smallest
> 'complete-out-of-the-box' image". In fact, I think it would be a mistake
> to say it should be.

How about a middle ground? Most of the people will just try and see what
is about, they will not use write overlay, so we can target the image at
1 GB (999 MB), to cover their case. Advanced users, who will made use of
the write overlay, will surely write the image on a 2GB or large drive,
having the option to set the overlay as large as they want and the
possibility to throw in other useful things, like a persistent home.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:10:16 +0530
From: onkar mirajkar <odmirajkar gmail com>
Subject: Re: Desktop Live DVD: diff
To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop
    <fedora-desktop-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
    <3492acc30911060440m48a62286qf58f18beec83b46d mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi,
Few days back I created a Ubnutu live USB. But I recognize that its not good
for my day to day use as it doesnot allow me to add my own packages like
VLC.
Is this a general problem with all Live USB as there are live dvd creator
which allows me to add my own packages.
I think its good idea to add this feature as USB is read wirte device not
read only like DVD so that user can install their own software and customize
thier live USB.
Thanks,
Onkar



2009/11/6 Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora nicubunu ro>

> On 11/05/2009 10:34 PM, David Zeuthen wrote:
>
>>
>> Also, no-one says we _must_ include useless crap or even use all of the
>> space. And no-one says the space we're going to use is to be used for
>> software. I've advocated earlier that we should try and promote things
>> like Ogg Theora. For example, we could include
>>
>>   http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/
>>
>
> + 1 million
>
>
>
>> I'm not sure I like the idea, if the idea is 'stop doing a small
>>> functional live image and make our smallest 'complete-out-of-the-box'
>>> image 2GB big'.
>>>
>>
>> No one says the desktop image should be "our smallest
>> 'complete-out-of-the-box' image". In fact, I think it would be a mistake
>> to say it should be.
>>
>
> How about a middle ground? Most of the people will just try and see what is
> about, they will not use write overlay, so we can target the image at 1 GB
> (999 MB), to cover their case. Advanced users, who will made use of the
> write overlay, will surely write the image on a 2GB or large drive, having
> the option to set the overlay as large as they want and the possibility to
> throw in other useful things, like a persistent home.
>
> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
>
>
> --
> Fedora-desktop-list mailing list
> Fedora-desktop-list redhat com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
>
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