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Re: Making Fedora Core CD #1 Standalone -- the "common denominator"

Chris Chabot wrote:  
> Ah finaly something we disagree on :-) Small is suprisingly easy to
> accomplish.. However to make this install usefull to to the average
> user, thats something different i.m.o.
> We might not share the same vision here.. I envision a 1 CD
> instalation that allows ppl to get up and running, and do all the
> basic server and/or workstation stuff that you would expect.. So basic
> IM, browsing, office document editing, graphic packages, full
> gnome/nautilus with basic utilities.. etc. Not the expanded list that
> makes it 4 cd's, but enough to have the same experiance as you would
> have using Windows 9x / XP.. even just a little more. For a lot of
> people this 1 CD instalation should already be enough to start 'using
> linux'. If after that they want to install another desktop
> envirioment, databases, etc.. then they will need the extra cd's or
> download things from internet repositories.

"Useful" isn't the ultimate goal of Quark, at least what I'm striving
for.  I'm looking at a "minimal GUI install."  Why?

Everyone will _disagree_ what is "minimal."  One company might have
standardized on OpenOffice.org, while another might use CrossOver Office
with MS Office, while another still might not use a word processor
altogether (and use something like LyX or Scribus, etc...).

The idea here is to give corporations a "minimal" install they _always_
plop down on their workstations, then run a script that apt-gets
everything else.  Maybe later on we can create a "Quark plus" builder
that fills an ISO with more applications.  But it will always be
_customized_ at the end user, not in Fedora "Quark" itself.

Fedora "Quark" should be the 90MB "minimal" install plus GUI and basic
client/service componets for authentication and network access.  That's
all.  Everything else and you start getting people who differ.  ;-ppp

> Thus my 'quark' (to use your definition) vision is different from
> yours.. While i like the concept of "just basics please", i can see
> this confusing people why they have to download the 4 cd's anyway
> (thus not solving that problem). While for advanced users this
> pure-basics 1 cd usefull, i think it misses the point for the "average
> user"

You're talking to the guy that cuts DVD-Rs with both Fedora "Core" and
"Extras" on it.  ;-ppp

But for "Quark," I'm not looking at the "average user."  I'm looking at:
1. The IT Professional who wants a "common base"
2. The Developer who wants to know what libraries to "aim for"

And other details.  Once we define what Fedora "Quark" is, we can give
more flexibility (like that "Quark plus" builder script I mentioned).
But right now we need to define what should be in Quark itself -- a
common base that _no_one_ will disagree with what is included, and
can grow to include more basic packages in the future.

> I gues a terminology i'd use to describe my 1st cd vision is 'assumed
> functionality'.

And you're right, that's where we differ.
"Assumed functionality" differs between different users.

I'm talking about the minimal GUI/client/service install that _all_
"assumed functionality" will _always_ have.

I'm not just talking about fitting a distro on 1 CD.
That can be done with tools already out there.

And you can do this by taking Fedora "Quark" and adding what you want to
fit on 1 CD.  The same for anyone else.  The key here is to define that
"Quark" that has packages that will be in _all_ offspring.

> Last argument i have on this is wasting CD space.. if CD1 only has
> 200Mb of stuff on it, there's a big risk this will add another cd to
> the instalation, and thus be more expensive to publish/burn, make for
> more cd swapping, and make ppl scream bloat even more then they do
> now..

And that's where the "Quark plus" comes in.  You have "Quark," and then
you bundle other stuff on it with the "Quark plus" builder.  The key is
that the _end_user_ does this, not the "Quark" spec.

This could eventually be part of the Fedora "Core" builder.  Fedora is
built upon "Quark" and all the popular stuff added into CD #1.  But I'm
looking ahead of the game, but that is an eventual goal.

Bryan J. Smith, E.I. -- b j smith ieee org

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