Leaving?

[Sean]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:12:52 +0200
Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl> wrote:

> I'm seriously considering switching distro's after the AIGLX and target
> audience discussion. I cannot believe how arrogant most of the replies
> are, saying that if user install any third party software that then that
> thirdparty software is their problem.

That hasn't been the only response.  There have been suggestions
about how those providing support for third party software could manage
the software they supply to improve the situation.  The main point is
that Fedora should not be held hostage by the whims of these outside
providers.
 
[snip]
> I'm just totally stunned by the arrogance in this discussion, the I'm
> holier then thou stance. And most of all the total disregards to the
> many end users who happen to rely on the thirdparty software in case.

There isn't a total disregard for many end users, rather a regard for
those who will benefit from this upgrade.  It has been made pretty clear
that those using binary driver need not suffer if their systems are
properly configured.  If their systems _aren't_ properly configured
to deal with a kernel update or X update from core, then this seems
like a very useful conversation to have now so that there is time
to get those systems into shape beforehand.

[snip]
> This is not meant as some kinda blackmail to stop the Xorg 7.1 update,
> to be honest at this point I don't care about the 7.1 update anymore.
> And as I said when I started the target audience discussion this was
> never about the 7.1 update. Its about the principle of not knowingly
> having a yum update during a stable release breaks peoples systems,
> especially not with a smile on your face and saying behind those end
> users backs that will teach them not to use binary crap. Because that
> _IS_ what is happening here. Sure there are many advancements in xorg
> 7.1 and I'm not suggesting to leave it out FC-6 even if the binary
> drivers aren't available at FC-6 launch time, but breaking stuff with
> TOTAL disregard to a large group of end users, during a stable's release
> lifetime is IMHO unacceptable. And what worries me is not this single
> instance of breaking, its the attitude behind it and the ease with which
> we (you?) step over the all of a sudden minor problem of seriously
> hurting a significant group of end users.

This update should _not_ hurt a significant group of end users.  If the
binary drivers are supplied and supported properly nobody should be hurt
by this upgrade.  And it definitely will help a significant group of users.
Let's not deprive those users who would benefit from this upgrade
without a very good reason.

Those that really care about this issue could take the time now to help
the users they care about.  Updating instructions and howtos for users
so they know how to deal with an upgrade to X (or the kernel).  Talking
with 3rd party repos to make sure that the rpms they provide are designed
to protect their users from problems they might experience when the core X
or kernel is updated.  Letting users on the mailing lists know about an
upcoming X upgrade.  I'm sure there are other things that could be done
as well.

Sean