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Re: The community has lost control... (Was: Re: Don't put new packages through updates-testing)

On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 07:21:22PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> 2. Merging means Core packages have their say on Extras just like Extras
> packagers have their say on Core. That's how merges work. Original
> control is diluted in exchange of a broader reach. 

The issue is not there. The issue is more an issue of methods. There was
no discussion in advance and no consideration of how to limit the impact
on packager work.

> 3. The current grumbling and contestation is aimed both at merge changes
> and at FESCo decisions. People object to decisions enforcement because
> they just want to do their own thing. FE was never about freewheeling
> individualities (witness the numerous guidelines produced). I don't hear
> many base packagers objecting, and frankly the way the "community" is
> invoked in support of a small number of personalities is grating on my
> nerves a lot. Community ≠ big packagers club

Enforcing guidelines on packaging is a different issue than choosing
processes and workflow. Especially in Fedora: packaging guidelines
are open to comment by anyone, ratified by the FPC and FESCO. The 
processes and workflow have been implemented without discussing with
anybody, without any control by the community. It wouldn't be an issue
if the choices were seen by all the community members as best, but
lately all the choices were associated with putting choices about
packages in other persons hands than packagers and complex procedures
that add a lot of steps to the workflow. Ok, a lot of packagers didn't
said anything but quite a few did, and it is always the same about all
issues, most of the packagers don't say anything.

> 4. I'm actually pretty amazed things went so smoothly considering the
> late crash-landing of koji and bodhi. The infrastructure team made a
> terrific job, give them some slack. Things will be fixed faster by cool
> problem reporting than by flaming endlessly on the lists.

Once again the issue is not a technical one, the infrastructure team
did indeed very well (especially with koji, in my opinion) but the
methods used to drive Fedora.


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