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Re: Review queue/FESCo after the merge

Jesse Keating wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:16:36 +0100
Hans de Goede <j w r degoede hhs nl> wrote:

Look at it this way, Fedora is all about Freedom, but since the
merger the Freedom for contributers (esp. packagers) has been greatly
reduced. Take the new release engineering proposals for example, I
have some ideas about this, but the entire release engineering crowd
had already precooked there ideas and unanimously disagreed with
mine, or atleast that is how I perceived this.

Most typically of all this I guess is this alinea: This will probably
be my last mail in this thread, as I see no use in continuing this
dicussion, why? Because I no longer believe that discussions like
this will cause any changes.

Wow, I am somewhat blindsided by this.

I created the proposal after talking to some people and posted it out
on the net for review, long before even the rel-eng group voted on it.
I asked for all kinds of feed back, multiple times.  I had to get the
releng group to agree to it, and FESCo an opportunity to agree to it.
There was discussion on list and changes made.  What more were you
looking for?

Being listened too? Please understand that this is just an example, the problem is I entered the discussion, quickly got the idea things were pretty much set in stone already, and left the discussion again.

With the big problem here being not rel-eng nor the rel-eng process, but me getting the feeling that investing time in decision making discussions is useless, as:
1) Things are already pretty much pre-cooked, when you say: "I created the
   proposal after talking to some people". I read "I created the
   proposal after talking to most of rel-eng". Don't get me wrong this is a
   logical thing todo, but if proposals get pre-cooked this way and I disagree
   I get to argue with rel-eng as a whole / as a block, since you already have
   reached a consensus on how things should be done, and even though there may
   have been different opinions in the past, everyone has now adjusted his
   opinion to the consensus (which is a normal thing todo for any human).

2) Because of 1) mainly I guess I do no get the feeling that people are
   actually listening to me.



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