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Re: Call for vote: Nautilus use Browser view for fedora 11



On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid gmail com> wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>>
>> 2. I always was under the impression that gnome especially was a
>> democracy but it turns out it's under dictatorship and then call it:
>> "Meritocracy" with a dictator like taste.
>>
>
> I have yet to see any Free and open source project work like a democracy.
> There might be some democratic aspects to portions of the projects but
> generally, who does the work gets to decide how things are done.  If Linus,
> says no, it doesn't get into the Linux kernel. Period.  No voting either.
> You have the full freedom to fork and convince others to adopt it but then
> again, that would require actual work to be done.
>>
>> 3. Fedora has a community but when the community starts demanding
>> something (use the browser mode as default) then it turns out that the
>> actual fedora community, the ones that are helping to make fedora
>> "better", are just a hand full of people.
>
> A entire distribution full of free and open source software is given to you
> at no cost with the all the freedom to modify and redistribute the result.
> I think it is more appropriate , to do less of "demanding" and more of
> engaging in a discussion. People don't like being forced but they generally
> prefer more participation.
>>
>> What i or any other community member says is simply being ignored. WE,
>> the community want this feature to change and i'm not going to be
>> silent about it!
>
> A community is inclusive of all its participants, developers and users
> included.  Finding consensus in a diverse community is a hard thing.  As
> seen in this thread, there is no one opinion that is representative of a
> community.  In Fedora, developers engage in a discussion or a debate,
>  sometimes a heated one but voting isn't a real discussion. It doesn't show
> WHY people are for or against something which makes it much more harder to
> make a decision either way.  The why is important, perhaps more important
> than gross number count. If you don't agree to me, you don't listen to the
> community is a often repeated thing but isn't a valid statement.
>>
>> A very good example of the bad community direction is, to name someone
>> again, Rahul. He always points you to your mistakes (fine in a way)
>> but never adds (not in my experience) something constructive or
>> helpful.... always a link to a wiki of somekind.
>>
>
> Even in my first mail I did point out other things you could have done to be
> more effective. I try to be helpful and give you more references instead of
> repeating the same things over and over again. That is one of the reasons, I
> prefer to document things when questions come up frequently on something or
> the other.  I am pretty sure, that is more helpful than your approach but
> you seem to have penchant to convert this into a emotional personal fight
> instead of just a technical debate.
>>
>> And for this entire issue where i made this thread for in the firste
>> place. Don't expect me to be silent now. I will be vocal about this.
>> fedora has a "freedom" sign
>
> Being vocal  (and cross posting to increasing more mailing lists) doesn't
> really change anything. Freedom is not anarchy. There are always rules about
> how things are done within any community.
> You do have the full freedom given by the project to do your own thing. I
> even encourage you to do it. If you are really successful, that would be a
> valid statement of your own viewpoints and will help others reconsider their
> current opinions as well.  The current strategy doesn't seem to work very
> well.
>
> Rahul

For the first time ever i fully agree on what you said and didn't find
your post annoying to read.
Just one thing about my "tactic".. i have none.. i have no preset plan
of how i'm going to do this. i just do it when i'm writing my next
response and till now that got me far (not talking about mailing lists
now but life in general). I tend to do the right thing when i just do
it without planning anything or considering every possible outcome. I
think i am indeed getting done a part of what i hoped and that's
raising awareness that this option in nautilus should be changed and
that the majority of any linux related community is in favor of it. I
don't have hard numbers to back that up but there are no hard numbers
on community users so don't ask the impossible of me.


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