Networkmanager service is shutdown too early

[Alan Cox]

> > And what I would really expect is
> >
> >        - icons for dbus dependant things are overlaid with a "?" logo
> >        - maybe a single dialogue (with a 'don't show me again')
> >        - my desktop to reconnect to dbus and recover its state politely
> >          without any restarts by me.
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea how much custom code that is, when multiplied by all
> services and all programs that use them?  And remember, this is all code
> that will *almost never be called*.  It will not be tested very well.

It'll get called a lot in your test suite by simulation (just as kernel folk
use virtualisation to simulate hardware fails).

Seriously - I recognize that and its why "I would really expect" and a rather
more realistic short term solution were both listed.

> Look; with respect to the desktop and upgrades, we have far larger problems
> in Fedora than the system bus.  Do you realize that currently in Fedora, we

Yes but the system bus is fixable and hanging more stuff off it so it breaks
more and more will just move people off the bus and in turn make the problem
worse and worse.

> How do you solve that?  You don't.  We need to require a logout and log back
> in.  Possibly could be more clever about scanning executables in of the RPM
> and linking those to running processes, and then linking the processes to X
> windows and pulsing them or something but...yeah.

Actually firefox is pretty smart and there are ugly ways to do it. I do
agree with the general problem - but its going off topic and a diversion

> Remember for the desktop use case we do not have a Unix administrator
> sitting there with a root shell who knows the details of how the operating
> system works.  For our users it simply *cannot fail*.

I disagree - it must recover itself

Alan