sound problems

[Suren Karapetyan]

Alfredo Ferrari wrote:
> I don't agree.
>
> Fixing some problems and casuing many more is not progress it is a 
> regression full stop.
>
> By the way, a lot of people contribute to this thread with various 
> degrees of flame wars, except that nobody (particularly from Fedora) 
> is spending one word on how they are going to fix this big regression.
>
>        Any news about the REAL problem (the broken audio)?
>
>                  Alfredo Ferrari
>
>
>
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>
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> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
>> Suren Karapetyan wrote:
>>> I'm sure trying to fix them one by one in F10 is WRONG.
>>
>> Downgrading is what is wrong. The ALSA update fixes bugs for some 
>> people and
>> even adds support for some hardware. Moving back is not the solution,
>> fixing the update is.
>>
>>        Kevin Kofler
>>
>> -- 
>> fedora-devel-list mailing list
>> fedora-devel-list at redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>>
>
I knew I'll be sorry when I created the thread (maybe I'll be sorry for 
this post even more).
It was completely of no use.
And bugzilla report (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477911) 
was quite pointless too.
As statistics shows 
(https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?component=kernel&product=Fedora), 
opening a report against kernel is no more useful than sending it to 
/dev/null.
And so is bodhi 
(https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F10/FEDORA-2008-11593).
2008-12-21 08:31:27 This update has been pushed to testing
2008-12-21 14:45:43 On my dell 640m, mic does not have sound output. But 
the built-in speaker works.
2008-12-21 16:07:36 Sorry, it's not mic, but the earphone does not have 
sound output. [dell 640m, all configurations are default ]
2008-12-22 15:45:37 This update has been submitted for stable
2008-12-24 18:45:34 This update has been pushed to stable

31 hours in testing (add mirror sync and it will be much less) 2 
comments from 1 person telling that it breaks sound. And it's pushed to 
stable.
The next morning it breaks sound on my notebook and I report it at: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477911.
A lot of "me too"s. 27 comments from different people trying 
with/without pulseaudio, next kernel update from koji, rawhide...
Then the bug is marked as a duplicate of 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477954.
The same discussions go here and H.J. Lu (hongjiu.lu at intel.com) points 
us to 
http://n2.nabble.com/F10:-new-kernel-breaks-audio-(snd-hda-intel)-td1923470.html
Here people are advised to download and try the alsa snapshot builds 
from atrpms which fixes sound at least for a few people (not for me).

Then I create this thread hoping to get some developers look at the 
problem and provide patches which I can test.
In no time this thread becomes a flamewar where people tell how bad 
atrpms (yeah.. the one which fixed sound for some people) and everyone 
who contributes to it is.
And then I'm told that if I consider breaking sound for 13 (for now) 
days with a security update wrong, then maybe I shouldn't use Fedora.

This brings to an interesting question: Who should use Fedora.
In 95% of this list/wiki we consider Fedora's users to be newbies and 
very often even clueless, silly, dumb.
We say: "Let's stop doing X and start doing Y, cause clueless users will 
want Y and if someone wants X back he can do it himself".

Do we expect regular user to stay with Fedora while he can't play any 
music on his entertainment notebook for 13 days?

"You can boot with older kernel!" - "An older what?"
<irony>We don't show grub menu(to eliminate flicker) until user presses 
CTRL or whatever it was (I don't remember).</irony>