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Re: Do we need split media CDs for F12?



On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:15:04 +0200, Kevin Kofler <kevin kofler chello at>
wrote:
> So let me summarize what's going on:
> * Some evidence is provided to show how split media download counts are
> very low and decreasing with every release.

You should also mention that:

* some arguments have been provided to potential causes of these lower
numbers, and
* some evidence has been provided contradicting the enormous differences
seen at mirrors.fp.o/download.fp.o

> * There seem to be significant community voices in favor of dropping
split
> CD media.

Does "significant" here mean the numbers, or the persons that are in
favour?

> * Fedora Unity responds by saying they will provide split media *no
matter
> what*, even in the event everyone else in the community agreed on it not
> beeing needed, and judging from the reaction to my suggestion of just
> dropping Anaconda support for them, they also seem to expect the Anaconda
> developers to do the work of keeping split media working. Jesse Keating
> summarized this aptly as "holding Fedora hostage".
> 

Note that we are all participants here, on a development mailing list, and
that although we might in all wisdom decide to drop foo in favour of bar,
the perspective on the consuming side might be very different.

Also note that in the past two years, I've been (trying to get) involved
with anaconda development but moreso then a lack of devotion on my part has
upstream been blocking this kind of outsider intrusion.

> So let me clarify a bit where I stand:
> * If a sizable portion of the community agrees that split media are
> definitely useful and there is no viable alternative, then of course we
> should keep it! It is not my goal to overrun the community!

We, Fedora Unity, are not saying the Fedora Project cannot decide in favour
of dropping split media. We're afraid it's the wrong decision, but that's
it.

Completely separate from that point, we are saying we will continue to
release CDs. We've said we see more value in quality then we do in
quantity. I'm not sure how the Fedora Project, you included, can give us so
much crap over this.

> * If split media support is needed in Anaconda anyway to support a
> multi-DVD
> Fedora (not Everything) spin (multi-DVD or lotsa-CD Everything spins
being
> another thing Fedora does not officially produce and whose usefulness I
> doubt of – how many people actually use those spins?

Roughly, very roughly, about 200 users for each arch and each set of media.

The CD version (31 CDs for Fedora 11 x86_64 BTW, as much as Debian FYI) is
just for fun -and completely useless. If I could do a floppy release I
would (but most packages don't fit on a floppy).

 What advantage over
> only downloading what is actually needed?),

For some people it's a carry-along mirror.

> * But if split media turn out to be only needed for the Fedora Unity
spins
> (i.e. IF the community decides that split media is NOT needed), the
burden
> of maintaining it should be on them.

And as I've said before and will repeat here again;

The question is not *if* Fedora Unity would take on that burden, the
question is whether upstream will let us.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip


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