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Re: Downgrading Firefox 3.5 and Thunderbird 3.0

On 05/13/2009 05:55 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Nathan Grennan wrote:
    I understand, but on the other hand does Fedora want a dozen bug
reports over Thunderbird being useless, because of a crappy default?

The problem is that Fedora can't change anything in Thunderbird (nor
Firefox) without upstream buy-in because the maintainer refuses to rename
the programs and thus we're bound by Mozilla's strict (and IMHO completely
unreasonable and unacceptable in the Free Software world) trademark policy.

Actually, Fedora policy is to stick with upstream. I did not create that policy, though I do agree with it and abide by it. Forking is not my idea of playing nicely with upstream. Additionally, Mozilla's policy is very similar to Fedora's policy. If you find such policies offensive, you may wish to read Fedora's policy and re-evaluate your participation in the project. Note that I am not recommending that, but if you feel strongly about this, then you need to do what you need to do.

I'm really fed up of all the special treatment Mozilla is getting over this,
for example the xulrunner/firefox/thunderbird stack is now the ONLY one
excluded from provenpackager commits, if all projects worked like this
(i.e. required upstream's approval for every single patch), Fedora would be
completely unmaintainable.

Please do not confuse me with upstream. I am the one who is ultimately accountable for the package. Patches require MY approval.

As far as maintainability goes though, I don't see how adding a bunch of patches to a package helps that. Keeping the patch set minimal is critical for maintainability across the stack. Other distributions adding patches is the reason why some gecko-using projects have autoconf files check for Debian patches, else proceed as normal. Maintainability, woo!

I really don't see why we don't just rename
Firefox and Thunderbird like Debian is doing.

This sounds like an issue you ought to raise to the Fedora Board. In the interest of full disclosure, I am currently serving on the Fedora Board.

But you're assuming that if I am forced to rename the package, I would maintain it differently. The package's name or trademarks have no bearing on whether I think that adding random patches to an intricate chunk of code like a web browser will have a net negative effect on the web, the maintainability of the package, the maintainability of the related stack, and relations with upstream.

(*) check who the primary maintainer of Firefox and Thunderbird in Fedora is
and who he's involved with, draw your own conclusions...

Erm?  What do any of my special lady friends have to do with this?

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