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Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?



On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 14:01 +0000, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> Ok, controversial title.
> 
> I have just tried to test install F12 on some of my systems, (5 different ones).
> All of these bar 1 has problems with the graphics (X11 lockups, system lockups
> and other problems) mainly in 3D but also in 2D.
> I still am using F8 on most of my systems as the Graphics systems have not
> been stable enough for 3D in Fedora since around those times.
> 
> I know there is a lot of work going on in the graphics front, I myself
> have worked on and fed back issues as time and ability allow. During F11
> I helped with some issues, but unfortunately none of these made it back into
> updates for F11 and now F12 is out with yet more issues.
> 
> The Linux kernel is generally relatively stable, as is the main system
> libraries etc in Fedora. The core issues most people seem to be facing is 
> Graphics and Sound issues. Obviously a major issue with Graphics is the sheer
> number of different graphics chip sets in use and the lack of documentation
> for quite a few of them. Due to this it requires a lot of user testing and
> feedback to get these issues sorted out. Unfortunately the very fast
> Fedora new release schedule gets in the way of getting this testing done
> and things do not get fixed prior to a new release which introduces yet
> another set of problems. The new release speed also uses a lot of
> developer and user time in just managing to create a new release and
> updating systems to use it.
> 
> I know the quick release cycle is one of Fedora's features in its aim to
> be close to the leading edge, but this has to be balanced with usability 
> otherwise there will be few people actually using it in anger and thus
> actually testing the software. This could lead to the demise of Fedora.
> 
> As an idea, at this stage, how about canceling the F13 release and just fixing 
> and updating the F12 release ? This will concentrate developers and users into 
> one system release. Similar to the pre-release test days we could have
> post-release test days. For example a Graphics test day for F12 where
> a certain set of tests with a test suite and a set of well known applications
> could be run. As F12 would be out longer, more people could participate in this.
> If a commitment, all round, to producing updates fixing the issues in F12 were 
> made, I think more people would be willing to participate as users could
> expect to see a stable system for their efforts.

+1 on this.

I have 4 bugs entered into bugzilla related to display problems and none
of them get any attention.  I even posted a warning to the group about
this matter. (See November 16, "Warning about possible display issues
with F12 upgrade".)

For KDE users, this situation has been building for a while.  Back in F9
the Folderview widget didn't work correctly with some nvidia cards,
supposedly because of issues in the proprietary nvidia driver.   The
developer's response to this: tough luck for using a proprietary driver.
Now that the open source nvidia driver is out they say to use it.  The
problem with nouveau is that it has just as many or more problems than
the proprietary driver, albeit in different areas.

I am not buying that all of the display problems are caused by the
proprietary driver.  And if they are, why do these bugs get closed ?
They should be forwarded to nvidia for work.  

Aside: I know, the bug reporter should forward them to nvidia.  But then
why even report a bug to the Redhat bugzilla ?  EVERYTHING is upstream
to them !  And the problem with reporting the bug (non proprietary
nvidia) upstream is that they say that we aren't running the general
release of the component, we are running the Fedora version and thus
Fedora should fix it. 

I am VERY frustrated with the state of the display components right now.
I am quite frustrated with how display component bugs are handled by the
Fedora developers.   I think some things need to change. 

I'm holding back from upgrading to F12 until I hear that some of these
issues are resolved. 



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