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Re: Fedora 12 Graphics Issues: Cancel F13 and concentrate on fixing F12 ?

On 11/26/2009 05:05 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:

On Nov 26, 2009, at 6:01, Terry Barnaby <terry1 beam ltd uk> wrote:

Ok, controversial title.

I have just tried to test install F12 on some of my systems, (5
different ones).
All of these bar 1 has problems with the graphics (X11 lockups, system
and other problems) mainly in 3D but also in 2D.
I still am using F8 on most of my systems as the Graphics systems have
been stable enough for 3D in Fedora since around those times.

I know there is a lot of work going on in the graphics front, I myself
have worked on and fed back issues as time and ability allow. During F11
I helped with some issues, but unfortunately none of these made it
back into
updates for F11 and now F12 is out with yet more issues.

The Linux kernel is generally relatively stable, as is the main system
libraries etc in Fedora. The core issues most people seem to be facing
is Graphics and Sound issues. Obviously a major issue with Graphics is
the sheer
number of different graphics chip sets in use and the lack of
for quite a few of them. Due to this it requires a lot of user testing
feedback to get these issues sorted out. Unfortunately the very fast
Fedora new release schedule gets in the way of getting this testing done
and things do not get fixed prior to a new release which introduces yet
another set of problems. The new release speed also uses a lot of
developer and user time in just managing to create a new release and
updating systems to use it.

I know the quick release cycle is one of Fedora's features in its aim to
be close to the leading edge, but this has to be balanced with
usability otherwise there will be few people actually using it in
anger and thus
actually testing the software. This could lead to the demise of Fedora.

As an idea, at this stage, how about canceling the F13 release and
just fixing and updating the F12 release ? This will concentrate
developers and users into one system release. Similar to the
pre-release test days we could have
post-release test days. For example a Graphics test day for F12 where
a certain set of tests with a test suite and a set of well known
could be run. As F12 would be out longer, more people could
participate in this.
If a commitment, all round, to producing updates fixing the issues in
F12 were made, I think more people would be willing to participate as
users could
expect to see a stable system for their efforts.

You make the assumption that if fedora stopped, so would upstream. You
also state that the kernel is stable, yet most of the graphics work is
going on at the kernel level so we have to continue to bring in new
kernels to pick up these changes.

Graphics work is not a fedora issue alone. It is an upstream issue first
and formost. By abandoning upstream and trying to stagnate will
ultimatly damage upstreams ability to gennew changes tested and released.


I'm not suggesting F12 should not be updated, in fact the opposite.

As you state most of the Graphics work is being done up-stream, but it is
the distributions role to package, release and allow users to test this
and feed back bugs. I am saying that a focus on Graphics with a quick
update cycle will help upstream get the testing they need and the users
to get fixes.

Actually a question on the Mesa packages, these are packaged as version
7.6-0.13 in F12. It seems however, that this is packaged from Mesa's 7.7-devel tree. I think the mesa developers have branched 7.6 as a stable branch and moved new development to 7.7. Shouldn't F12's Mesa packages have a 7.7 version number ??

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