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Re: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing



having read your comments Rahul, i see the troubles. I can also see that more work needs to be done to show the native drivers, and the cards they work with. Many users just buy NIC's and have to use ndiswrapper, or other technology. I see the drivers list is growing for support for wireless, but can these guides be made more availble, and put in some section of its own. Please forgive me if this is already the case, but after a very short search (so apologies if im wrong) it seems there is little to help show me what devioces are allowed, and what can be used nativly, and thus what i should buy as a wireless NIC to have full native support as standard.

Forgive my outburts also. It is a hot day here, and the lengthy process takes its toll on many a user at times. I have used ndiswrapper for a long while, and it is far from great, hence the need for such guides, but i also am keen to see the development of open source native drivers, so perhaps guides to this degree and to this point should be made, and amalgamated into one section suitable for publication in its own wiki pages, and avaiable on the main fedora websites??

NTFS, guide could still be done then, if written correctly, am i right in assuming this?? I think i need help, before ploughing into documentation, with such complex legal, or patent encumbered policies, and apologies for the seemingly rediculous arguements i have amde, it is simply just not enough to have aone or two docs on the subject, we need guides and recomendations on where to get this stuff (native drivers i mean) and if they are shippe,d how to active them.

Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406
BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN
WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk
BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk
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System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32
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pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21
Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32
uid Adam Moreland (MAniX)
sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21
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From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram fedoraproject org>
Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project <fedora-docs-list redhat com> To: For participants of the Documentation Project <fedora-docs-list redhat com>
Subject: Re: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:00:15 +0530

Adam Moreland wrote:

I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far as i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for clarification on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and prohibited.

The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros and in fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards already. Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of wireless being forbidden) is rediculous.


Wireless is not forbidden. Ndiswrapper is.

After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials, to allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers they already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC.

I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly promote the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To intergrate the open source to merge the experience into one community solution?? Wireless is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i have guides for both SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5.

Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper cannot be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of ndiswrapper contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of proprietry means. I read the policy as meaning that you cannot use nVidia, as they make it, but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open source. We (linux community) have used the same workarounds to get Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most printers, laptops, speakers, sound cards, and other methods. The user need not support proprietry means, because by using the open source ndiswrapper, they are surely curcumventing the need to be protected by the policy on forbidding proprietry terms.

I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora on the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion is unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules can be brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. FAT32 is supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, which has had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open source.

The explanation is given here at http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-beta-list/2006-March/msg00395.html. There are other technical reasons such as the issue of 4k stacks being the default (http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/). Many of the windows drivers would not work with Ndiswrapper since they require more than 16 k stacks in the kernel. The only purpose of ndiswrapper is to enable the loading of binary only modules within the kernel from a different platform. Fedora will not formally support or endorse such efforts.

If you the read the forbidden items page you would know that Fedora does not provide any software that is patent encumbered. Merely having the source does not satisfy all our requirements for inclusion.

Rahul

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