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[Sam Folk-Williams]

On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:52 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Sam Folk-Williams wrote:
> 
> > I guess my question is, how could this have happened? How could nothing
> > have been gathered in all this time? Also, why did this just now become
> > an urgent thing?
> 
> Just because it's a new problem to you doesn't mean that it's a new 
> problem.  It just means that it's a new problem to you.
>  

Point taken. The reason for my question is that it came to the list as a
last minute thing. 

> 
> It's worth pointing out at this point that we also had a great idea for
> FC4 *and* FC5 -- redirecting yum requests through bouncer and collecting
> stats that way.  But we didn't execute.  Why?  Because it wasn't judged to
> be important enough to expend resources to *make* it happen.
> 
This is definitely worth pointing out...

> It's all about execution.  We do what we have with what we've got.  Ideas 
> and promises are great, but they don't feed the bulldog.  And when we ask 
> for MORE FUNDING TO MAKE FEDORA BETTER, and the Powers That Be ask, "well, 
> how many Fedora users do you have?" and we have NO ANSWER, that is BAD FOR 
> FEDORA.  BAAAAAAAD.  
> 
Understood.

> 
> It's certainly much better than what we have right now, which is 
> *literally nothing at all*.  How many times do we have to reiterate this 
> point?
>  
I get it. I think there's value to looking at things like traffic to
fp.o, registered users on fedoraforums, etc. But I should have taken
into account that you have already looked into all that.

> > Why don't we start to prepare some kind of survey of people who are
> > registered at various fedora-related sites now? I don't know that it has
> > to correspond with a release.
> 
> I guess I don't understand what makes you think that survey data will be 
> anywhere near as accurate.
> 
I think it's generally accepted that surveys are a good and useful tool.

> I mean, here's some simple back-of-the-envelope calculations:
> 
> How many people who install Fedora actually join a Fedora mailing list, or
> go to a Fedora website?  20 percent?  5 percent?  On the other hand: how
> many Fedora Desktop users open a browser?  75 percent?  90 percent?
>  
> > On the other hand, if you really think this idea will give you data you
> > can trust and urgently need, it might well be worth it to go ahead. I
> > just personally think this feels a bit cobbled together.
> 
> We had great, large plans, as early as FC4.  Grand plans.  Beautiful 
> plans.  What happened?  We did not execute.
> 
Ok, with that in mind...

> Therefore, we dropped back to the *simplest possible plan* that would give 
> us *any data at all*.
> 
I'd say go for it. You have definitely showed me that this was not a
last minute thing, which is the impression that I had. Given everything
that has happened it sounds to me like if you don't do this nothing will
ever happen. Which means, DO IT!

Thanks for elaborating.

Sam

> --g
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
> Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
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> 
-- 
Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE
Global Support Services