Attendees: ----------- John Babich (jmbuser) Dimitris Glezos (glezos) <g> Karsten Wade (quaid) <q> Paul W. Frields (stickster) <s> Ricky Zhou (ricky) Robert 'Bob' Jensen (EvilBob) Mike McGrath (mmcgrath) [dropper-in] Jesse Keating (f13) [dropper-in] Summary: --------- Mainly we discussed participation and motivation in the project. Why we don't have many active contributors, etc. Discussions and conclusions include: * Unrealistic expectations about what contributing means. <s> "If we're going to raise a barn together, pretty much everyone needs to commit to hammering, sawing, and hefting ... People who only want to count timbers and fetch water, you only need a couple of 'em ;-)" <g> "... if we don't have the people, then we might need to rethink if we want to raise a barn or just a plain-ol bench under an oak tree. :)" <s> "I can do that on my own. I'd rather raise a barn with a dozen other people. ... With the wiki, anyone can "build a bench." Done. ... If there's going to be a FDP, we need to commit to barn-building." <g> "... personally, I think our docs infrastructure is already a shiny building I'm proud of. :)" * Trying to make it "easy" means too many tools, too many processes - Fragmenting the how-to aspect - Making it hard to get one area of FDP complete <q> "... we're actually quite good with that; a guide can be worked entirely in the wiki and output at the end with just a few hours of clean-up ..." <q> "I don't think Docbook is the problem at all ... I also don't think it is really the "red tape" ... I think it is that we are asking people to be real contributors, not toss-over-the-wallers." <q> "... anyone ... (can) maintain a doc on the Wiki ... in fact, that's what the Docs/ space is for ... (but) if you want it translated ... do we want 2 more l10n systems (Wiki, Plone)" <g> "... I'd prefer to first worry on how to have up2date content and *then* for l10n" <q> "... people don't apply any level of rigor to Wiki work like they do to other work, IME" <s> "We had an initial influx of work for wiki-based docs, but other than the release notes, people have not really done a huge amount of follow-through on drafts" <r> "Isn't basic cleanup really easy for bystanders to do on the wiki?" <q> "presuming they know how to write and follow a style guide, yes" <s> "That's a HUGE presumption too" <q> "HUGE" - Plone could help -- easy editing, built in tools for publishing, hooks for translation: <g> "do you think plone will increase the number of contributors to docs?" <q> "yes, in a few ways ... number of people who can edit/publish can increase easily ... if people can write with a Web UI editor and have that go directly into l10n and publishing without leaving the Web UI, I reckon that will help" - It would be good to improve our processes, but how to know what and where? <g> "... trying to think if we are ... doing something that could be improved by re-engineering some of our processes." <s> "You're not offbase... it's just hard to see where the improvement factors come in when there isn't a sufficient sample of where our time is spent on current processes, because there are so few people using them to start with"
Description: This is a digitally signed message part