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FDSCo Meeting 2007-08-21 IRC log

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09:02 < quaid> <meeting>
09:03 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda
09:03 -!- Irssi: #fedora-docs: Total of 29 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 28 normal]
09:03 < quaid> nman64, stickster, StillBob, couf, glezos, EvilBob, vpv -- good $time_of_day
09:04 < couf> same to ya quaid
09:04 < quaid> jmbuser, hmmm, that's who isn't on that list
09:04 < quaid> but he was on Wiki earlier
09:04 < quaid> anyway, we can get started as-is
09:04 < quaid> couf: how are ya?
09:05  * EvilBob is in a phone meeting
09:05 < quaid> ok, let's run down the agenda so we can get to the fun stuff
09:05 < couf> bit sick, but overall doing well, got bit tied up in life last months, trying to catch up
09:06 -!- JonRob [n=jon 88-111-164-189 dynamic dsl as9105 com] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
09:06 < quaid> one-sheet release notes ... f13, we're planning on following the same style we made up last time, which is the one-sheet of notes on the Wiki for test1 and test2, have test3 be the first 'beta release notes', then lock them for trans for gold
09:07 -!- |DrJef| [n=onefjef fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-docs
09:07 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#relnotes-schedule
09:08 < f13> quaid: ok, so you'll have something new in fedora-release-notes for test2?
09:08 < quaid> f13: not on that schedule; nothing new in the package until test3
09:08 < f13> quaid: also, I want to talk about the file layout in release-notes.  For the HTML/ content can we do HTML/release-notes/<lang>/  and HTML/readme-burning-isos/<lang>/ ?
09:09 < quaid> I'd like stickster input on that question
09:09 < quaid> he's so distracted at work he forgot to add _work to his nick :)
09:09 < f13> This way I can just grab the release-nots and readme-burning-isos directories and plop them on the iso and have translated content there, and copy the English verisons to the top dir as well.
09:09 < f13> heh
09:09 < glezos> yo
09:09 < quaid> f13: maybe we can do the new file layout with blank content for test2?
09:10 < quaid> then you can test all the deploy toolage
09:10 < f13> quaid: I'd appreciate it, gives us the time to get it right in Anaconda.
09:10 < quaid> makes sense
09:10 < couf> +1
09:10 < quaid> f13: same deadline on those package changes as the rest of the packages then
09:11 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/Schedule?action=show&redirect=Schedule
09:11 < quaid> umm, so, that would be ... 28 Aug
09:13 < quaid> ok, schedule updated
09:13 < quaid> f13: thanks, I think that's it; I'll make sure Paul sees the minutes and you guys can discuss the changes
09:13 < glezos> f13, are we going forward with the renaming of the ISO files?
09:14 < quaid> so one the one-sheet ...
09:14 < quaid> actually, f13 is there anyone in RelEng or Testing with a good overview to own content for the one-sheet?
09:15 < quaid> maybe ask wwoods?
09:15 < f13> quaid: poelcat might have good content regarding features
09:15 < quaid> f13: well, that's for the final relnotes, yes
09:15 < f13> we should have some blurbs for test2 as well, since features need to be in a testable state, and we want them tested.
09:15 < quaid> f13: the one-sheet can have a pointer to that content on the wiki
09:16 < f13> it's not easy to grok from the wiki what needs testing and how
09:16 < quaid> f13: but it will need latest, updated info about the test release
09:16 < f13> shouldn't be hard to come up with some stuff in a week
09:16  * quaid forgets the Wiki namespace we used last time
09:16 < quaid> we also want a pointer to that from wherever people look for relnotes on the ISO
09:16 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test1/ReleaseNotes
09:17 < quaid> so ... in the package?  on the Firefox homepage?
09:17 < quaid> couf: thx
09:17 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has joined #fedora-docs
09:18 < quaid> ok, I asked wwoods to drop by about http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test2/ReleaseNotes (next version)
09:18 < quaid> I think Fedora Docs has done it's part there, unless we need to update `fedora-release-notes` package with pointers to that page?
09:19 < couf> what was in the package for T1?
09:19 < quaid> dunno
09:20 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:20 < quaid> but one thing that happened on F7t1 was people looked in the ISO and wondered where the content was, so we need pointers from there, i think
09:20  * quaid tosses a quarter in the 'buy jmbuser a better country to get broadband from' fund jar
09:21 < couf> right, so say we add a small .txt in the top-dir which point to f8t2/relnotes
09:21 < quaid> or do we want to update the default browser page?
09:22 < couf> hmm yeah, that's part of the package :-/
09:23 < quaid> how about this ...
09:23 < quaid> let's push that decision to Paul to review when updating the package paths and such with jesse
09:24 < couf> aye, maybe best
09:24 < quaid> ok then
09:24 < quaid> we need to get started on the Beats
09:25 < quaid> and that may dovetail into the overall "activating contributors" discussion
09:25 < quaid> but at the least, a reminder to beat writers to fire up their keyboards ...
09:25 < quaid> FWN has been great at this; the weekly beat updating is coo
09:25 < quaid> cool
09:25 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has joined #fedora-docs
09:26 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:26 < glezos> quaid, really cool.
09:26 < quaid> that's all i have on that topic
09:27 < quaid> just hoping to broaden help there
09:27 < quaid> get Testing and RelEng and f-maintainers to actually contribute
09:27 < quaid> ok, next is the IG ...
09:27 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has joined #fedora-docs
09:27 < glezos> quaid, sending reminders is always a good idea I guess
09:27 < quaid> here's what I'm thinking on that, and I need to take this on list but here's the warning alvo
09:27 < quaid> s/alvo/salvo/
09:28 < quaid> I think the only things we can commit to for 8 are relnotes + IG
09:28  * quaid sees black text there, that was weird
09:28 < quaid> I think the only things we can commit to for F8 are relnotes + IG
09:29 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser 195 229 24 83] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:29 < quaid> sorry, had a Ctrl+F in there :)
09:30 < quaid> anyway
09:30 < glezos> quaid, does the DUG need updating for F8?
09:30 < quaid> dude
09:30 < quaid> it needs updating for _F7_
09:30 < quaid> this is no skin on the people involved
09:30 < quaid> this is across the whole project
09:30 < quaid> we have mainly failed to be able to maintain full guides
09:31 -!- JonRob [n=jon 88-111-164-189 dynamic dsl as9105 com] has joined #fedora-docs
09:31 < glezos> quaid, what I meant was that it's kind of a non-release-specific doc.
09:31 < glezos> quaid, agreed on that
09:31 -!- couf_ [n=bart fedora/couf] has joined #fedora-docs
09:31 < quaid> my hope is that opening the Wiki to more contributors will help with the small one-off, how-to, and maybe we'll be able to draw from that somehow
09:31 < quaid> glezos: well, yes, but there are always changes that need to be tweaked across release
09:31 < couf_> sorry, power failed here
09:31 < glezos> quaid, right
09:31 -!- couf [n=bart fedora/couf] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
09:32 -!- couf_ is now known as couf
09:32 < quaid> but i think as a project, the only things we've proven ourselves consistently able to deliver are:
09:32 < quaid> * release notes
09:32 < quaid> * installation guide
09:32 < quaid> * really freaking awesome tools
09:32 < quaid> and that is all a testament to the interests of the people involved
09:32 < quaid> so I'm tempted to just work with that for this release 
09:33 < quaid> anyway, like i said, a good topic for the list
09:33 < quaid> just heads up to what I'm personally thinking/feeling
09:34 < quaid> so, on to more interesting stuff
09:34 < quaid> it appears we are near the end of "Summer" for the various coding projects
09:34  * couf needs to run for a while, will keep watching though
09:34 < quaid> my major concern is helping everyone finish successful
09:34 < quaid> *fully
09:35 < quaid> vpv: what do you need from the mentor side?  what is the timing/schedule we are working with?
09:35 < quaid> glezos: I think I know what GSoC needs from me; how do you think things are going?
09:36 < quaid> nman64: daMaestro isn't around, but let us know if you need anything from this group for the GSoC stuff
09:36 < glezos> quaid, my goals in terms of development were reached a while ago
09:36 < vpv> quaid: I'm having some problems with DocBook, other than that, it seems to be alright. I have time at least until August 31, probably even a couple of days after that
09:36 -!- wfoster [i=wfoster nat/redhat/x-330892ca034367aa] has joined #fedora-docs
09:37 < quaid> glezos: yeah, you make it easy for me
09:37 < glezos> quaid, deployment might take some time to make sure security is OK
09:37 < quaid> ok
09:38  * glezos notes that GSoC says that students should be judged for their code as it was on August 20
09:38 < nman64> quaid: daMaestro sent me what he had yesterday.  I'll be reviewing it ASAP.
09:39 < glezos> quaid, I'll do a fresh install of transifex to make sure the install instructions are ok and let you know to check the code out.
09:40 < quaid> glezos: thanks
09:41 < quaid> we have a transifex user for Fedora?  or one for testing?
09:41  * quaid wants to setup locally and commit from here
09:42 < quaid> I can also use e.g. another SVN I own as a test spot; set it up to be an upstream for a translator
09:42 < quaid> ok, that's cool then ...
09:42 < glezos> quaid, no transifex user for Fedora.
09:42 < glezos> quaid, transifex initializes 4 local repos to play with
09:42 < quaid> ok,cool
09:43 < quaid> moving on ....
09:43  * quaid waits a second or two first
09:44 < quaid> so on to election stuff
09:44 < quaid> so, the irony is ...
09:45 < quaid> no one seems to have the time to work on making an election happen
09:45 < quaid> which means we are all derelict of duty and should resign as unable to fulfill our duties as leaders
09:45 < quaid> which means an election would be needed to fill the seats
09:45 < glezos> lol
09:45 < quaid> etc. ...
09:46 < quaid> I'd bring this up on list, but I'm getting a little tire of only talking with Paul and Rahul on there
09:46 < quaid> s/tire/tired/
09:46 < glezos> elections every 6 months are probably a bit overkill
09:46 < quaid> maybe so
09:48 < glezos> quaid, do you think it might help it we asked people what do they think we are doing wrong as a project?
09:48 < quaid> hmm ... well, yes, but ...
09:48 < glezos> or, to rephrase, what we could do better? What prevents them from contributing and participating?
09:48 < quaid> will people only read it if that is the Subject:?
09:48  * couf returns
09:48 < quaid> because it looks to me like there has been such discussion on list
09:49 < quaid> glezos: could you drop a quick email with that question?  might as well ask it straight out
09:49 < quaid> and maybe we are trying to do too much or with too many tools or something, I dunno
09:49 < glezos> quaid, ok, was thinking of suggesting that
09:49 < glezos> quaid, and too few active contributors
09:49 < quaid> yeah
09:49 < quaid> we have enough folks here right now to vote to postpone elections, I reckon
09:50 < quaid> couf, EvilBob - the question on the table is, should we postpone the elections until the next yearly cycle, figuring that 6 months is too often for FDP?
09:50 < quaid> we discussed this initially and weren't sure then, either
09:50 < EvilBob> quaid: +1
09:50 < couf> quaid: +1
09:50 < glezos> quaid, +1
09:50 < quaid> fwiw, we can still elect a new chair :)
09:51 < quaid> well, +1 from me since I proposed it :)
09:51 < EvilBob> I have just been swamped here again to ge the leg work done
09:51 < EvilBob> Just when I think I will have 20 minutes to get it going anything comes up
09:52 < quaid> I'd rather our energy on what matters for the release
09:52 < quaid> that after all is the Prime Imperative
09:52 < quaid> well, that was easy
09:53 < EvilBob> -1 on new chair
09:53 < quaid> I propose we take the discussion about activating contributors to the list
09:53 < quaid> EvilBob: I see the plan, keep me too busy to resign?
09:53 < couf> +1 to the plan :-)
09:53 < quaid> ... and with that discussion moving, we can either AOB or close the meeting
09:54 < EvilBob> new chair should happen after the election that should have happened last week, with that getting pushed 6 more months I think the chair has to wait also
09:54 < EvilBob> quaid: however If you need to step down none of us will hold it against you
09:55 < quaid> well, I didn't propose it yet, but I get the point that time is passing
09:55  * EvilBob motions to close the meeting
09:55 < quaid> 2nd!
09:55 < quaid> 5 ...
09:55 < quaid> 4 ...
09:55 < quaid> 3 ...
09:55 < quaid> 2 ...
09:55 < quaid> psyche!
09:55 < quaid> </meeting>

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