FDSCo Meeting 2008-03-26 IRC log

Wed Mar 26 21:45:35 UTC 2008

20:17 < quaid> <meeting>
20:17 < couf> disco
20:17 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCO meeting, gathering the souls
20:19 -!- jmtaylor [n=jason at fedora/jmtaylor] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:19 < stickster> Documentation, wooo!
20:19 < quaid> docmentation lad
20:19 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation Project -- it's all about the Docs, baby!
20:19 < quaid> lesson one of the wiki, if you have a page loaded, don't edit that, edit in a new tab, because there is no guarantee you'll get it up in time for the meeting to start
20:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDocumentation!SCo mtg ::: Colophon policy for release notes
20:20 < quaid> by golly, a new thing to discuss
20:21 < couf> fiesta
20:21 -!- smooge [n=smooge at canopus.unm.edu] has left #fedora-meeting ["-ENOTIME"]
20:21  * stickster takes credit for new topic
20:21 < quaid> ok, so who knows anything about this?
20:21 < quaid> you may speak
20:22 < stickster> Re: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-March/msg00152.html
20:22 < stickster> The responses so far are unanimous that #2 is the solution, wipe the Colophon each release and gather it again based on CVS commits and other activity.
20:22 < stickster> Makes for easier tracking (i.e. only have to do it for the release we're in)
20:23 < couf> +1 to #2
20:23 < stickster> And if you want your name in, you better get hoppin'! :-)
20:23 -!- schlobinux_ [n=xavierb at AGrenoble-257-1-112-6.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #fedora-meeting []
20:23 < stickster> I'm +1 to #2 as well.
20:23 < couf> yeah and the old names are still available in other versions of the relnotes
20:23 < stickster> Exactly.
20:23 -!- gospo [n=gospo at nat/redhat/x-999a994c8af35a5e] has left #fedora-meeting []
20:24  * quaid looks, one second
20:24 < couf> Q: where do we start? as in everyone who committed to devel since the F-<previous version> branch or after the pot-drop?
20:25 < quaid> also there is the wiki commits
20:25 < stickster> couf: I'd say start with beat writers for the current release
20:25 < quaid> so I'd say, anything after the last wiki snapshot for the previous release
20:25 < stickster> quaid *jinx
20:25 < couf> aye
20:25 < stickster> So it would be those people, plus any translators from the first POT drop
20:25 < stickster> onward
20:25 < quaid> yeah, man, give credit to the soul who comes and cleans up the last mess
20:25 < quaid> onward
20:25 < stickster> No kidding
20:25 < couf> right-o
20:26 < stickster> Votes? Votes?
20:26 < stickster> We have (2) +1's thus far
20:26 < couf> and about 10 communitized +1's too
20:26 < quaid> looks like list agrees
20:26 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk
20:27 < quaid> +1 to "slick that sucker each release" method
20:27 < quaid> all right!
20:27 < quaid> we have a real consensus
20:27 < quaid> now we just need a volunteer to do the work
20:28 < couf> right, that was my second question :-)
20:29 < couf> looking at the page it seems that a lot have actually added themselves, so that'll probably be an easy one
20:30 < quaid> ok, I emailed the question to the thread
20:30 < quaid> and asking translators to add themselves to the wiki page is a great method, too
20:30 < quaid> that is, add yourself if you want guarantee, and we'll look in the logs anyway
20:31 < couf> indeed
20:31 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-ca74e5403d1c08be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20:31 < quaid> ok
20:32 < quaid> I think we have what we need squeezed from that topic, eh?
20:32  * quaid momentarily distracted by short, adorable people
20:32 < quaid> any mo' on this topic?
20:32 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:33 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDocumentation!SCo mtg ::: Single source summary ...
20:33 < quaid> onward then
20:33  * quaid heard the sound of the bell there, he was sure of it
20:33 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SingleSourceSummary
20:33 < quaid> now, as I expected, I haven't touched it since I poured it all into the pot, gave it a stir, and added some salt and pepper
20:34 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-f047abd9f59e823b] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:34 < stickster> quaid: You took my bell joke!
20:35  * stickster meant to devote some time to SSS and ran out of cycles.
20:35 < quaid> stickster: "redistributed"
20:36 < quaid> I'm going to hang a CC BY SA sign around my neck
20:36 < stickster> ha
20:36 < quaid> "You may take whatever I say, think about it, and say what you will from it."
20:36  * couf needs to say photographic evidence first
20:36 < stickster> So about the SSS...
20:37 < couf> s/say/see
20:37 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/SingleSourceSummary actually
20:38 < quaid> what we manage ther
20:38 < quaid>                 e
20:38 < quaid> is the technical content
20:39 < quaid> so, ideally, we can give some raw ideas into the overview type pages and let other writers (who may be some of us) add their polish; share this with Mktg
20:39 -!- jsmith [n=user at 72.21.36.138] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:39  * jsmith stumbles in late
20:39 < stickster> quaid: I don't think enough people know what tasks they're supposed to complete on this page.
20:39 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:39 < quaid> moin jsmith :D
20:39 < jsmith> moin moin
20:39 < stickster> ~lart jsmith
20:39 < quaid> stickster: I haven't really put thunks into it
20:45 -!- rdieter [n=rdieter at sting.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:46 < quaid> and there we are
20:46  * quaid had in house distractions, sorry
20:46 < quaid> not sure how to tackle the SSS
20:48 < stickster> quaid: Should we be marking tags around the beginning and end of each section?
20:48 < stickster> Adding content?
20:48 < quaid> well, I see that some content actually needs to be sucked in _from_ the Beats pages, not vice versa, right?
20:48  * stickster tempted to ask about next actions since he's reading that part of GTD
20:48 < quaid> that is, let people continue editing the Beats pages as-is
20:49 < stickster> Yeah, we don't want to screw the Beats process at this point in F9
20:49 < quaid> ok, if I had the time to do this, i would do these actions:
20:50 < quaid> * wrap ## comments around OverView in the Beats, then pull that back in to the SSS
20:50 < quaid> * Look at what is common amongst the other content for merging
20:50 < quaid> * mark ## comments around that content for inclusion in other pages
20:51 < quaid> * scope all pages needing content, what do they need, etc.
20:51 < quaid> ** begin pulling pieces
20:51  * stickster suggests for anywhere we use [[Include(x,y,z)]] outside the SSS page, we should leave a starting note to let people know not to bother it
20:51 < stickster> ## This content is drawn from another page. Don't remove this macro without talking to the Docs Project first.
20:52 < stickster> ## Or unless you really, REALLY know what you're doing.
20:52 < quaid> +1
20:52 < couf> yeah, good idea
20:52 < quaid> ok, there are my actions
20:53 < quaid> let's at least get them minutes-ized
20:53 < stickster> We haven't jmbabich today, who's minutizing?
20:53  * quaid just noticed that
20:54 < couf> I'll do it
20:54 < quaid> thanks!
20:54 < stickster> Thank you couf!
20:54  * quaid was about to say something sarcastic
20:54 < couf> which would be? :-)
20:54 < quaid> in a good way, of course :)
20:55 < quaid> "don't hurt your arm sockets waving your volunteering hands"
20:55 < quaid> something stupid like that :)
20:55 < quaid> seriously ...
20:55 -!- alleycat [n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy] has left #fedora-meeting ["If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip!"]
20:55 < couf> heh :)
20:56 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1 at 136.245.7.181] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20:56 < quaid> ok, while the wiki is whacked ...
20:56 < quaid> last few minutes we can talk about ///
20:56 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg ::: active content work
20:57 < quaid> relnotes are doing OK ...
20:57 < quaid> some changes rolled in to wiki, etc.
20:58 < quaid> beta notes went fine
20:58 < stickster> Yeah, this one came together pretty well
20:58 < stickster> I did a little frenzied stuff with f13 the night before, but it was less than par for the course, actually
20:58 < quaid> mizmo, mlanglie came in to help with making a mucho cooler relnotes landing page for F9 final
20:58 < couf> thumbs up to all who did the work
20:58 < stickster> One thing we should definitely try to keep in mind is to standardize our linking to the downloads
20:58 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at c-98-204-160-140.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:59 < jmbuser> meeting?
20:59 < quaid> the current discussion is to reorganize the content around reader interests, and we'll try to do that with the existing XML pulled in a different XInclude structure
20:59 < quaid> jmbuser: still going
20:59 < couf> moin jmbuser 
20:59 < stickster> We tried to consistently use http://fp.o/get-prerelease  and  http://fp.o/<static_relnotes>  this time around
20:59 < couf> which worries me a little cause the final relnotes are supposed to go to docs.fp.o
21:00 < stickster> couf: That's an interesting point, and intersects with quaid's last statement
21:00 < stickster> You see...
21:00 < stickster> I think that the notes on the static site, where we send people at first, either from fp.o front page or start.fp.o, need more reworking than just content shuffling.
21:01 < stickster> I think they ought to be trimmed and edited to be more like gnome.org's
21:02 < stickster> On every page/section, those trimmed "splashy" notes can link to our big release notes document for indepth info
21:02 < couf> agreed
21:02  * couf always liked gnome's way of doing it
21:02 < stickster> This *could* mean more work and strings, but since we have to do this repeatedly anyway for release announcements and other overview, it's actually a way to save some work
21:02 < stickster> Especially if we use summaries on SSS to write in human language.
21:03 < quaid> hrm
21:03 < quaid> this is a bit of an effort, for sure
21:03 < stickster> "How does this help the <user/developer/admin> kick ass?"
21:03 < quaid> can we do this in the time remaining?  do we have the resources?
21:03 < stickster> We have the power
21:03  * quaid puts on his curmudgeon hat
21:03 < stickster> We have some webmonkey help
21:03 < couf> l10n won't like this ;-)
21:03 < stickster> couf: Well, it's putting some new strings on the web site, to be sure.
21:03 < quaid> well
21:04 < quaid> yes, website side
21:04 < quaid> so
21:04 < quaid> if we do the work *now*ish
21:04 < couf> ricky: ping
21:04 < quaid> then it can be translated in the weeks up to GA where the main package trans is mostly done
21:04 < stickster> Right
21:04 < stickster> And we know the feature set already.
21:04 < couf> true enough
21:05 < quaid> can we suck in the strings from OverView PO files into the website PO files?
21:05 < stickster> Probably
21:05 < quaid> so that's the idea on the table
21:05 < stickster> But much of the OverView beat as it is right now needs to be rewritten for this usage.
21:05 < quaid> turn our resources to doing this
21:05  * stickster for it.
21:05 < stickster> We've got EvilBob+team on IG already
21:05 < quaid> while we still have DUG, AG, SMG, and Enc/CryptoG
21:06 < quaid> we really need a new source of editors
21:06 < stickster> quaid: I think the relnotes are a good place for you and me to put our experience, since it's a new venture.
21:06 < stickster> We can spread that particular love/pain in F10
21:06 < stickster> We're already doing pretty well at spreading out the other guides
21:06 < couf> you've got mdious too on relnotes
21:07 < stickster> True
21:07 < stickster> So I say let's go for it
21:07 < quaid> heh
21:07 < quaid> but I'm a curmudgeon!
21:07 < quaid> ah, well, rising tide and all that
21:07  * quaid sends begging for editors email
21:07  * stickster needs to bail for a bit... call
21:07 < stickster> back in 10 on #f-docs
21:07 < quaid> k
21:08 < quaid> there isn't anything new on the other content, fwiw
21:08 < quaid> so we can call for other business or quit
21:08 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg ::: Other bidness
21:08 < couf> the only thing would be: DUG target version
21:08 < quaid> oh, right!
21:08 < quaid> well, do we need to decide that? or is that an on-list discussion/decision?
21:09 < couf> on-list is fine
21:09 < couf> writers are following that topic
21:10 < ricky> couf: Ah, sorry, I pretty much have to leave in a minute.
21:10 < quaid> yep, agreed
21:10 < couf> ricky: no problem, was just wondering what date the website would freeze for F9
21:10  * quaid sees it has wandered
21:10 < quaid> all right then, we'll get ready to pull the plug on this mtg
21:11 < couf> go for it
21:11 < ricky> couf: How long do you think translators need?
21:11 < ricky> (Before final release)
21:12 < couf> ricky: if you can give them 2 weeks that would be awesome
21:12 < ricky> OK, in that case, around mid-april (15th or before fine?)
21:13 < couf> 15th is fine
21:13 < ricky> All right, thanks for the reminder.
21:13 < quaid> ok
21:13 < couf> quaid: that means we need to finish the web transition on the 15 too
21:13 < quaid> right
21:13 < quaid> got that stickster !!!
21:13 < couf> heh
21:13 < quaid> ok, closing in 5
21:13 < quaid> 5
21:13 < quaid> 4
21:13 < quaid> 3
21:14 < quaid> 2
21:14 < quaid> </meeting>

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