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FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-14 IRC log



HTML log:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080514

12:03 < quaid> <meeting>
12:03 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo hanging out -- roll call and opening howdies, then congratulations and all that on another fine release, the kittens are safe once again
12:03 < quaid> I is still here
12:04 < jmbuser> JohnBabich
12:04 < Sparks> EricChristensen
12:04 < jsmith> JaredSmith (present but brain-dead)
12:04 -!- glezos [n=glezos fedora/glezos] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:05 < quaid> glezos is here too I rekcon
12:05 < stickster> PaulFrields
12:05 < quaid> so, howdy, everyone
12:05 < quaid> congrats on another fine gold ISO to fall from the heavens
12:06  * jmbuser is still downloading the LiveCD
12:06 < stickster> Hear, hear
12:06 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr fedora/JSchmitt] has quit [Connection timed out]
12:07 < quaid> ok, then
12:07 < jmbuser> +1
12:07 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo deciding stuff -- What is Docs focus? Can we handle a switch to focus on Fedora contributors first? What does this mean? Are people interested in this? Would they be upset if other active resources were to focus on contributors instead of end-user docs?
12:07 < quaid> ok, you may say ... wtf is this?
12:07 < jmbuser> ??
12:08 < quaid> but folks around here have been talking about trying to resolve our own contributor problems before user problems
12:08 < quaid> that is, there is a world of help for users that is nearly good enough for all they need, and we are but a drop in that bucket, Fedora brand or not.
12:08 < jmbuser> true
12:08 < quaid> but the contributors are a finite group with a finite set of problems that we could really help give a better life.
12:08 < stickster> So this is something I feel strongly about.
12:09 < quaid> so, and I am repeating a suggestion from someone else, we could just decide to pull away anyone who is interested in talking this situation
12:09 < stickster> Let me take off my FPL hat... and put on a purely Docs guy hat.
12:09 < quaid> forget all the guides and all that for a while, etc.
12:09 < quaid> stickster: go ahead, please, as the suggestor :)
12:09 < stickster> I don't want to interrupt rudely, sorry
12:10 < stickster> But by the same token, I want to take the blame for this idea because it may be... controversial.
12:10 < stickster> I feel that we in Docs have been laboring a LONG, LOOONNNNG time to get some basic user documentation done.
12:10 < stickster> And that documentation already exists in so many places.
12:11 < stickster> The licensing on those other docs elsewhere keep us from just using them, so we are basically *FORCED* to do a "NIH" (not invented here) thing and redo everything from scratch ourselves.
12:11 < stickster> What we *really* need to do, if you ask me --
12:11  * quaid askes
12:11 < stickster> is to concentrate on writing documentation that is going to help other people contribute to Fedora.
12:11 < quaid> aka fix our own leaky roof, shod our own children
12:12 < stickster> Right, and not just for Docs, but for other groups as well.
12:12 < stickster> You might think to yourself, that this sounds really like cleaning up the wiki and doing a good job tying things together there.
12:12 < stickster> And I'm saying -- well, yes.
12:13 < stickster> We have always been of two minds about the wiki
12:13 < stickster> But the truth is, with the single sign-on coming, the wiki will be easier than ever for new contributors.
12:13 < stickster> Get an account, start editing the wiki right away.
12:13 < stickster> And that's all well and good
12:13 < stickster> But the REAL audience for Fedora is the CONTRIBUTOR audience.
12:13 < jmbuser> +1
12:14 < stickster> We need to empower them to GET INVOLVED.
12:14 < stickster> To work on PACKAGING.
12:14 < stickster> On MARKETING.
12:14 < stickster> On WEBSITES/INFRASTRUCTURE.
12:14 < stickster> On DOCS. (!)
12:14 < stickster> Those are the people that keep Fedora alive.
12:14 -!- J5 [n=quintice 66 187 234 199] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:14 < stickster> The contributors are our audience.
12:15 < quaid> I meant he bigger roof, foshure!
12:15 < jsmith> +1
12:15 < stickster> We love users, and are overjoyed we have milliions of them.
12:15 < stickster> But users in and of themselves do not power FOSS just through using it -- contributors who give something back, do.
12:15 < stickster> That could be as little as filing one bug -- meaning any user can be a contributor.
12:15 < quaid> I think we'll find that after we do this, the wiki will work right and we can shepherd new contributors to work within some of the docs we've defined
12:16 < stickster> But only if he knows *how* to do it.
12:16 < stickster> quaid: I think it's going to help a lot.
12:16 < quaid> content == screencasts, written, translated
12:16 < quaid> my recommendation is ...
12:16  * couf here
12:16 < stickster> There's also another audience to think about -- not just the hobbyist, but the independent software vendors (ISVs), companies, and so on
12:16 < quaid> couf: catch up on that, eh? :)
12:16 < stickster> We need to help them get involved in Fedora too.
12:16 < quaid> right, this helps them.
12:16 < couf> quaid: busy :)
12:16 < kital> good
12:17 < quaid> ok, so, two ideas I propose:
12:17 < stickster> So what I'm recommending is that we ask ourselves for any piece of Documentation, "Is this something that's unique to Fedora?"
12:17 < stickster> If it's 90% not, then the document should be, well, 90% shorter.
12:17 < quaid> stickster: but we use that filter anyway ...
12:18 < quaid> and that is more stage 2
12:18 < quaid> where it is obvious that, how to work within Fedora, that is 90% Fedora specific
12:19  * quaid holds back proposals for more discussion ...
12:19  * couf does a +1 to the general suggestion
12:19  * stickster waits to see if he put everyone to sleep.
12:19 < jmbuser> stickster:  I see the value in what you are saying
12:20 < jmbuser> Teach people to fish instead of making fish sandwiches
12:20 < couf> the one thing about this is, we can't know everything about everything in Fedora
12:21 < stickster> couf: Well, that goes for all Linux too. Thus my argument against writing big, general guides.
12:21 < couf> so that would mean tutoring, mentoring from people of thoose groups, and they've goot heaps of load too
12:21 < stickster> It very well may be that what I'm proposing comes down to the Docs team turning into a very specific, very targeted
12:21 < stickster> force for scouring the new wiki, and organizing it before we take on any tasks beyond the Release Notes and the Installation Guide.
12:21 < stickster> And both of *THOSE* could easily turn into online living things as well I suppose.
12:22 < quaid> I've been going around saying for the last few weeks that I want to be the new Wiki Gardener
12:22 < couf> right
12:22 < stickster> And if people want to do guides, maybe we should think about moving those off to fedorahosted.org to develop as independent projects
12:22 < quaid> with all that the metaphor implies
12:22 < stickster> And eliminating the Docs CVS.
12:22  * stickster waits for the explosion....
12:22 < couf> wtf? :)
12:22 < quaid> and one idea is to have a regular set of gardening hours, maybe around our meeting time for example, where anyone interested helps prune, plant, and compost
12:22  * jmbuser loves the wiki
12:23 < stickster> jmbuser: You'll love it more when it's Mediawiki.
12:23 < quaid> we have to be honest
12:23 < quaid> outside of the relnotes
12:23 < quaid> the conversion is just not worth it
12:23 < quaid> or rather, it hasn't been worth it much
12:23 < quaid> Installation Guide the one exception
12:23 < quaid> usually requiring heroics
12:23 < quaid> (and it stays in XML :)
12:24 < Sparks> I'm confused.  If we cater to the developers then we help built the project.  That's good.  If we alienate the users then we are developing a project only for ourselves.  That's bad.
12:24 < stickster> I feel a sense of guilt that I pick the RelNotes and the IG as the two "important" docs when I have worked quite a bit on both.
12:24 < couf> yeah, for some stuff it feels like overkill
12:24 < quaid> with Transifex, we are freed of CVS
12:24 < stickster> But with or without me, users really rely on those.
12:24 < Sparks> I'm not sure how much help the developers need.
12:24 < stickster> The Relnotes more than the IG.
12:25 < stickster> Sparks: It's not the *established* developers, it's the *new* developers who need help.
12:25 < stickster> New package maintainers.
12:25  * jmbuser thanks stickster for his last-minute rescue effort on the IG
12:25 < stickster> New bug triagers...
12:25 < stickster> New platform users
12:25 < quaid> +1K
12:25 < Sparks> stickster: Okay.  I'm good with that.  But I think we should provide that documentation, too.
12:25 < stickster> Sparks: Dropping guides we can't ever finish != Alienating users
12:26 < Sparks> But what are we telling the n00bs that come to Fedora looking for help?
12:26 < stickster> After all, we have millions of users, and really good press apparently, without them.
12:26 < stickster> Sparks: That's exactly it -- our wiki should be a more robust, well-tended garden of docs.
12:26 < stickster> Sparks: We should be able to point them to wiki pages that tell them what they need, in easy terms.
12:26 < quaid> so let me ask the white elephant question
12:26 < quaid> how is l10n in MW?
12:27 < quaid> can we hook it to Tx somehow?
12:27 < couf> wow, that's the killer question
12:27 < jsmith> Ugh...
12:27  * jsmith falls over dead
12:27 < quaid> well, we dunno
12:27 < quaid> maybe we *can* version it in git and generate PO/POT
12:27 < jmbuser> MW = MediaWiki
12:27 < quaid> yes, sorry
12:27 < jmbuser> Tx = Transiflex
12:28 < mmcgrath> pong
12:28 < quaid> s/flex/fex/
12:28 < stickster> quaid: This is a good question. I asked mmcgrath to pitch in his opinion on L10N in MW
12:28 < quaid> aye
12:28  * mmcgrath is here to give opinions.
12:28 < stickster> And speak of the... well, angel
12:28 -!- red_alert [n=ill fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:28 < stickster> Is there any possibility that people will be able to translate stuff in the wiki in some way?
12:28 < mmcgrath> So I think we should do it the same way mediawiki and suse does that.  I'm not 100% sure on technical implementations but its basically this...
12:28 < mmcgrath> Every language gets its own wiki instance.
12:28 < jsmith> wiki != CMS
12:29 < stickster> +10 for reusing other working ideas.
12:29 < stickster> jsmith: True enough.
12:29 < mmcgrath> something (this I'm not sure of) sits in the middle and makes it so if you go to a page that hasn't been translated, you get the english version.
12:29 < mmcgrath> I'm not sure how it all works.
12:29 < quaid> oh, well
12:29 < stickster> Where "working" != "hacked together tearfully"
12:29 < quaid> that's different in a sense
12:29 < quaid> that is how it is presented to the world
12:29 < quaid> but how do they translate?
12:29 < stickster> Right, how does the engine work.
12:29 < mmcgrath> but there are working examples somewhere.  And I've had the lines of communcation opened to the suse guys before, I'll just go ask them.
12:29 < quaid> do they open the page and write in new content? ugh
12:30 < stickster> This is something we may have to have someone research.
12:30 < mmcgrath> quaid: ahhh, the actual translation?  I have no idea.
12:30 < stickster> That doesn't need to be mmcgrath.
12:30 < quaid> also
12:30 < quaid> for the engine part
12:30 < stickster> It's certainly a good question.
12:30 < quaid> we could conceive of replacing it or hooking it to Tx
12:30 < couf> yeah, I'm afraid it's as current wiki-translation is going
12:30 < quaid> couf: explain please?
12:30 < couf> look at a page, copy it, translate it, ...
12:31 < couf> same as for Moin
12:31 < mmcgrath>  
12:31 < mmcgrath>  
12:31  * jmbuser sees mmcgrath is speechless
12:31 < mmcgrath> <nod> its my understanding thats how it works.
12:31 < couf> if not, wikipedia translations would be way more complete in a sense
12:31 < stickster> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide
12:31 < mmcgrath> I'm not really taking sides in the whole wiki vs cms thing for translations just because I'm conflicted enough about it.
12:32 < stickster> Yup.
12:32 < quaid> look, in the end
12:32 < quaid> wiki content is strings with markup
12:32 < mmcgrath> I mean, if people want to do it, I guess I say let them.  I'm not sure how they decide what gets translated.
12:32 < quaid> what we need
12:32 < quaid> is someone to commit to writing a parser
12:32 < quaid> MW wiki => PO/POT
12:32 < quaid> if it doesn't exist, it should
12:33 < quaid> and then imagine exposing MW via Transifex ... useful,w hat?
12:33 < stickster> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/txt2po
12:33 < mmcgrath> po/pot with mediawiki I'd think would be possible but I don't know if it exists.
12:33 < stickster> ^^^
12:33 < mmcgrath> at least not in a way that mediawiki can then read in and present to the user.
12:33 < stickster> Note mediawiki is a supported flavor
12:33 < mmcgrath> something to look at then.
12:34 < stickster> And pootle -- that source project -- is a vigorously supported and thriving project, not old & busted.
12:34 < mmcgrath> stickster: it looks like that only supports mw markup -> po.  I don't think that mediawiki can then read that po back in and present it to the user.
12:34 < mmcgrath> I could be wrong though
12:34 < couf> po2txt :)
12:35 < stickster> They have both ways, I think
12:35 < couf> if that can get automated, that seems doable
12:35 < stickster> couf: +1    txt2po, po2txt
12:35 < quaid> wow, it looks like the instructions are, "translate the page" with no tools, so it means manually pulling strings into another tool
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12:36 -!- J5_ [n=quintice nat/redhat-us/x-1a5779b8020dfed9] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:36 -!- viking-ice_ [n=johannbg tgad78 rhi hi is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:36 < stickster> quaid: You're talking about the OpenSuSE page>
12:36 < stickster> ?
12:36 < quaid> yes, sorry
12:36 < stickster> right.
12:36 < quaid> but in essence, that is what people do for the big wikipedia, right?
12:36 < stickster> See above.  There is an automated tool for txt2po and po2txt.
12:36 < quaid> I see that now
12:36 < stickster> It handles mediawiki! :-)
12:36 < stickster> (supposedly)
12:36 < quaid> but is anyone using it with a WebUI for MW?
12:36 < stickster> So... worth trying.
12:36 < quaid> ok
12:36 < couf> mmcgrath: is there a way to xml-rpc data out of MW and back in?
12:36 < mmcgrath> but I don't see how mediawiki will handle it is all.
12:37 < quaid> we need to look at that on the side
12:37 < couf> or something like xml-rpc
12:37 < stickster> I would think that Transifex could do this.
12:37 < mmcgrath> couf: yeah, the api is pretty rich.  I've even heard of fuse implementations to actualy mount mediawiki though I've not played with it.
12:37 < quaid> mmcgrath: something needs to inject the strings back in the MW files/database tables, and do it by language
12:37 < mmcgrath> well, transifex's implementation is "check out, alter, commit"
12:37 < mmcgrath> it does that with existing tools.
12:37 < mmcgrath> we might have to write our own tool for transifex to do it right.
12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: Right, but I think it's built modularly enough that back end support for something else could be plugged in.
12:37 < quaid> we would likely want to put the files in SCM
12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: yup
12:37 < couf> in other words: tools are pretty much in place, we just have to tie'em together
12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: we're in violent agreement :-)
12:38 < quaid> or could, that is, so we can version them
12:38 < quaid> ok then
12:38 < stickster> quaid: Actually, MW versions.
12:38 < mmcgrath> possibly... I'm still not convinced mediawiki can read po files though.
12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: let's try a bit of quid pro quo
12:38 < stickster> So we don't necessarily need an additional SCM.
12:38 < mmcgrath> since mediawiki gets all of its information from a database.
12:38 < mmcgrath> "quaid pro quo"
12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: will you work with us
12:38 < jmbuser> This could be another great Fedora contrib to upstream
12:38 < stickster> mmcgrath: Right, it might take something external to do the conversion and inject the page change into MW.
12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: to make a new project to get this to happen, owned by Infra
12:39 < quaid> mmcgrath: it is our condition on being able to move a bunch of work to the wiki *and* be the gardeners to keep it a tame and wonderful place
12:39 -!- runa_b [n=runa 59 160 127 177] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:39 < mmcgrath> quaid: I can help but not for a while, I've got a month of work to catch up on (because of the change freeze + release).  I'm pretty well booked until the end of June is all.
12:39 < quaid> otherwise we are forever pushing guides out from there and into XML just so we can translate the things
12:39 -!- paragn_ [n=paragn 59 160 127 177] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:39 < quaid> not sure on timeframe
12:39 < mmcgrath> after that though I'll be happy to help.  If you can find someone else in infrastructure that can do it sooner I'll make sure they have the access they need
12:39 -!- Southern_Gentlem [n=notfred unaffiliated/southerngentlem/x-2894754] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:39 < stickster> We ought to see if we can put out a call for volunteer help in the Fedora community to kick this off.
12:40  * quaid has to be honest, DocBook is more for translation ease than for anything that a wiki cannot do "good enough" and be better at getting contributions
12:40 < stickster> I love DocBook too which is why I think any project we want to have in DocBook should just become a thriving entity in fedorahosted.org.
12:40 < quaid> mmcgrath: OK, general support for the idea of kicking off a potential upstream tool to plugin to the wiki is probably the most important, v. actual labor
12:40 < couf> I'll try and get some L1ON-input on this
12:41 < quaid> stickster: +1 to that!
12:41 < stickster> Especially since we can have a toolchain using an in-distro tool, Publican, to do the work.
12:41 < quaid> couf: that would be good; it's too late for a GSoC project :(
12:41  * jmbuser thought the same thing
12:41 < couf> yeah, that's a bummer
12:41 < stickster> At worst this might make for a BRILLIANT FUDCon hackfest topic.
12:41 < quaid> let's reorg this thing!
12:42 < jmbuser> Yes!
12:42 < quaid> so, can I lay out some decision points to make it clear we are agreed or not?
12:42 < jmbuser> Proceed
12:42 -!- mether_ [n=ask 59 160 127 177] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:43 < quaid> i. FDSCo agrees to turn attention on enabling *all* Fedora contributors?  This is not done as a mandate/order but a statement of intent for the project.  People can and should continue on whatever content is of interest to them and only pitch in where they want.
12:43  * quaid continues
12:43 < mmcgrath> :)
12:44  * couf feels a new wave coming :)
12:44 < quaid> ii. Work on managing the wiki as "gardeners" with one person designated to make the project happen (the Wiki Gardener), and make that a tame and happy place for all, however that has to happen.  This includes resolving MediaWiki to work with Transifex and whatever.
12:45 < stickster> As for (i.), 100% agreed... but we need to make this a clear point on the ML, so volunteer contributors don't wonder why old guys aren't chomping at the bit to work on "new" guides over the next N months.
12:45 < quaid> iii. Push all DocBook XML guides out to be stand-alone projects on fedorahosted.org to use whatever toolchain they want; we can continue the docs-common tools (within fh.o?) and decide to swap in or make publican optional.
12:45 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa fedora/geroldka] has quit ["Verlassend"]
12:45 < jsmith> stickster: +1
12:45 < stickster> oops, I interrupted, sorry :-\
12:45 < quaid> iii.b Decide the best fate for the release notes in a separate discussion; cf. docs-common as well
12:45 < stickster> agreed
12:45 < quaid> um, I think that's it
12:45 < quaid> did I miss anything?
12:46 < quaid> (in summary, that is)
12:46 < couf> I don't think so, all good
12:46 < quaid> then we can do a quick bit of "last discussion" and voite
12:46 < quaid> so, to proceed
12:46 < jmbuser> s/voite/vote
12:46 < stickster> with respect to my previous point... I was trying to say...
12:46 < quaid> stickster made a bit of discussion there, +1 to making it clear on mailing list and all over
12:47 < stickster> a message to say "Here's what we're doing, here's why we're doing it" beyond the meeting minutes, etc.
12:47 < quaid> jmbuser: perogativeo f the leader today to just let typos fly :D
12:47 < stickster> But 'nuff said
12:47 < quaid> stickster: +1, also blogs, and direct chats
12:47 < stickster> disco
12:47  * glezos discussed Tx with the MW guys at FOSDEM
12:47 < quaid> it's also part of the "we're about to fuck with your wiki, heads up!" campaign
12:47 < quaid> glezos: ooh?!
12:47 < stickster> glezos: Cool, hope you saw my pitches up above ;-)
12:48 < jmbuser> One refinement - a landscaping crew with a chief, instead of a wiki gardener
12:48 < glezos> there is a sketchy mechanism for PO extraction, but only for the UI. AFAIK, the content can't be exported into POs. I might have missed something though.
12:48 < stickster> Now that we know OpenSuSE would also benefit from this, there's some cross-distro goodness for you
12:48 < stickster> I'm thinking, maybe I should email Zonker to find out if they have any ideas and/or resources to contribute.
12:48 < jmbuser> hack the wiki, hack the wiki
12:48 < couf> stickster: +1
12:48 < quaid> jmbuser: explain your distinction?
12:49 -!- fcrippa [n=fcrippa host57-49-dynamic 4-87-r retail telecomitalia it] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:49 < quaid> jmbuser: in wiki gardener v. wiki landscaper
12:49 < stickster> glezos: Are you talking about a bulit-in MW capability?
12:49 < jmbuser> quaid: wiki gardener sounds like a lonely job
12:49 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:49 < jmbuser> chief garderner with apprentices is better
12:50 < glezos> stickster: yes. Not sure if a proper PO-extraction layer exists for content.
12:50  * Sparks volunteers to be the guy on those cool stand-up lawn mowers
12:50 < stickster> glezos: Have you seen pootle's tools?
12:50 < stickster> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/txt2po
12:50 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk
12:50 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster
12:50 < quaid> jmbuser: in my mind, it is mental preparation for being the one who gets all the hot compost landing on them when the other subprojects let fly
12:50 < glezos> stickster: yes. I was talking about Mediawiki in particular. Not just a converter, but a built-in capability in MW to extract and manage PO files.
12:51 < jmbuser> stickster has left the building
12:51 < glezos> BTW -- I would *love* to work on something like this at some point in the future.
12:51 < jmbuser> ...or not
12:51  * glezos still reading the log
12:52 < stickster> Aw crap.
12:52  * stickster remembers Ctrl+R means something very specific in xchat-gnome.
12:52 < glezos> mmcgrath: with the GSoC, I'll be working on abstraction layers in Tx to make it able to receive and submit content from various tools (eg. submit via https or even plain email instead of ssh)
12:52 -!- ldimagg_ [n=ldimaggi nat/redhat-us/x-a4ef544f65d68dd2] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:52 < mmcgrath> glezos: excellent.
12:52 < stickster> glezos: Right -- would it work for Tx to check out POT by using something like pootle's txt2po against a MW revision, then doing po2txt and pushing it back into MW?
12:53 < stickster> err.. well, you get my drift.
12:53 < jmbuser> undoubtedly :-)
12:53 < glezos> stickster: The challenge would be to implement a PO manager inside MW. After that, Tx can take those PO files quite easily.
12:53 < stickster> glezos: never mind, you just answered my previous question.
12:54 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia p57A2EB5F dip t-dialin net] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:54 < quaid> ok, we are adrift
12:54 < quaid> to the points above, a quick show of hands:
12:54  * stickster gets out of the way of the rudder.
12:54 < Sparks> +1
12:54 < quaid> i. FDSCo agrees to change the order of things thusly ...
12:55 < stickster> +1 to i, ii, and iii.
12:55 < couf> +1
12:55 < jmbuser> +1 to all - change is good
12:55 < quaid> whee!
12:55 < quaid> +1 from me
12:55 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 107 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 106 normal]
12:55 < couf> and thats ratified :)
12:55 < stickster> So unanimously we've pretty much changed the nature of the Docs Project for the future.
12:55 < quaid> but wait, there's more!
12:55 < stickster> Pretty good for an hour's work
12:55 < quaid> glezos, jsmith 
12:56 < glezos> +1
12:56 < stickster> You can cut a tin can with them!
12:56 < jmbuser> genzu knives?
12:56 < jsmith> +1
12:56 < quaid> then that is unanimous unless I'm stupidly forgetting someone
12:56 < couf> quaid: bob
12:56 -!- mether_ [n=ask 59 160 127 177] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
12:56 < quaid> EvilBob is not here but here?
12:57 < jmbuser> EvilBob: ping
12:57 < couf> well Sparks jumped in his place, so .. :)
12:57 < quaid> Sparks: I saw you comment a bit earlier ...
12:57 < quaid> heh
12:57 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr p4FDD176F dip0 t-ipconnect de] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:57 < quaid> ok, yes, I see :)
12:57 < quaid> just making sure we adequately
12:57 < quaid> addressed the idea of continuing content work
12:58 < quaid> (e.g. Sec Guide :)
12:58 < quaid> ok, rock on
12:58 < quaid> two minutes
12:58 < quaid> elections?
12:58  * quaid looks at the pages
12:58 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo - two minutes for election discussion
12:58  * stickster makes motion to push this until next week
12:58 < quaid> that's what it seems to be like
12:58  * stickster selfish because he's about to get on the phone :-\
12:58  * stickster backs away
12:59 < quaid> and the channel has a turnover
12:59 < jsmith> I second the motion
12:59 < quaid> ok, let's push this topic to the next meeting
12:59 < couf> yep, push back
12:59 < jmbuser> +1
12:59 < quaid> and catch up on #fedora-docs to refresh ourselves on the elections :)
12:59 < quaid> and be out of here in 5
12:59 < quaid> 4
12:59 < quaid> 3
12:59 < quaid> 2
12:59 < quaid> 1
12:59 < quaid> </meeting>

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