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Re: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19



 my poor beloved!

Jess

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:00 AM,  <fedora-docs-list-request redhat com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Self-Introduction (Mike Danko)
>   2. Re: Self-Introduction (Basil Mohamed Gohar)
>   3. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia)
>   4. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia)
>   5. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Domingo Becker)
>   6. Release Notes entry for the moin package (Ville-Pekka Vainio)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:35:39 -0400
> From: Mike Danko <mike l4m3 com>
> Subject: Self-Introduction
> To: fedora-docs-list redhat com
> Message-ID: <1239870939 14027 15 camel skrelnick>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents:
>
> I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems
> at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering
> RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with
> little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm
> working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day)
> and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public
> eye.
>
> I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify
> my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I
> do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly
> purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally
> come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for.
>
> I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm
> hoping to help in any way I can.
>
> - Mike
>
>
> mike skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19
> pub   1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24]
>      Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878  CA6D 6659 1093 517F
> 2C19
> uid                  Mike Danko <mike l4m3 com>
> sub   2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:13:50 +0800
> From: Basil Mohamed Gohar <abu_hurayrah hidayahonline org>
> Subject: Re: Self-Introduction
> To: For participants of the Documentation Project
>        <fedora-docs-list redhat com>
> Message-ID: <49E6F6CE 8020108 hidayahonline org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 04/16/2009 04:35 PM, Mike Danko wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents:
>>
>> I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems
>> at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering
>> RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with
>> little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm
>> working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day)
>> and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public
>> eye.
>>
>> I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify
>> my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I
>> do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly
>> purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally
>> come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for.
>>
>> I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm
>> hoping to help in any way I can.
>>
>> - Mike
>>
>>
>> mike skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19
>> pub   1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24]
>>        Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878  CA6D 6659 1093 517F
>> 2C19
>> uid                  Mike Danko<mike l4m3 com>
>> sub   2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24]
>>
>>
>>
> Welcome, Mike!  Nice to see you getting more involved.  Maybe, whenever
> I get back to Columbus, we can have a mini Docs meetup. :D
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:07:44 +0100
> From: Rui Gouveia <rui gouveia globaltek pt>
> Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation
> To: piotrdrag gmail com,        Fedora Translation Project List
>        <fedora-trans-list redhat com>
> Cc: fedora-docs-list <fedora-docs-list redhat com>
> Message-ID: <49E0DC70 4000203 globaltek pt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I personally completely agree.
> Also, the Portuguese team decided, since the release notes is so big,
> that it's better to leave it 100% untranslated than just small pieces.
>
> Rui Gouveia
>
> Piotr Drąg escreveu:
>> Paul W. Frields pisze:
>>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a
>>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual.
>>>
>>
>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate
>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really
>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if
>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more
>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular
>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill
>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much
>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is
>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs?
>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our
>> community.
>>
>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users
>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English
>> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to
>> collaborate and maintain release notes.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents,
>>
>
> --
> Rui Gouveia
> Sócio gerente
>
> GlobalTek - Soluções Informáticas, Lda.
> Rua Augusto Luso, 121
> 4050-073 Porto
>
> T: +351 938 391 608
> W: www.globaltek.pt
>
> AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE
>
> Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela são confidenciais e
> destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem são
> dirigidos. Se não é o destinatário da mensagem ou a pessoa responsável
> pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinatário, fica informado de
> que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utilização,
> distribuição, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revelação a outrem,
> impressão, ou cópia desta mensagem é expressamente proibido. Se
> recebeu esta mensagem por engano, deverá destrui-la, eliminá-la do
> sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda.  A GlobalTek Lda
> utiliza software anti-vírus, no entanto, não obstante terem sido
> tomadas todas as precauções, não pode garantir que a mensagem e seus
> anexos não contêm vírus. É, assim, da responsabilidade do destinatário
> assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos são submetidos a detector de
> vírus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens
> transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas,
> perdidas, destruídas ou chegarem ao destino com atraso.
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:12:16 +0100
> From: Rui Gouveia <rui gouveia globaltek pt>
> Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation
> To: fedora-trans-list redhat com,       fedora-docs-list
>        <fedora-docs-list redhat com>
> Message-ID: <49E0DD80 7010403 globaltek pt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1
>
> Paul W. Frields escreveu:
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Piotr Drąg wrote:
>>
>>> Paul W. Frields pisze:
>>>
>>>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a
>>>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate
>>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really
>>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if
>>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more
>>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular
>>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill
>>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much
>>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is
>>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs?
>>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our
>>> community.
>>>
>>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users
>>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English
>>> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to
>>> collaborate and maintain release notes.
>>>
>>
>> I tend to agree with you, Piotr.  I think that SIG pages on the wiki
>> are more appropriate for explanations of esoteric packages, and that
>> the release notes should feature information that is going to be
>> important (1) to general users, and (2) for migrating from one release
>> to another.  So for example, warning people of an important change in
>> a database that requires action on their part is appropriate, while
>> saying "we now have package X" is not.  That's my opinion, at least.
>>
>> The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs
>> of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release
>> notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated
>> by all translators.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --
>> Fedora-trans-list mailing list
>> Fedora-trans-list redhat com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>
> --
> Rui Gouveia
> Sócio gerente
>
> GlobalTek - Soluções Informáticas, Lda.
> Rua Augusto Luso, 121
> 4050-073 Porto
>
> T: +351 938 391 608
> W: www.globaltek.pt
>
> AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE
>
> Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela são confidenciais e
> destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem são
> dirigidos. Se não é o destinatário da mensagem ou a pessoa responsável
> pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinatário, fica informado de
> que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utilização,
> distribuição, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revelação a outrem,
> impressão, ou cópia desta mensagem é expressamente proibido. Se
> recebeu esta mensagem por engano, deverá destrui-la, eliminá-la do
> sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda.  A GlobalTek Lda
> utiliza software anti-vírus, no entanto, não obstante terem sido
> tomadas todas as precauções, não pode garantir que a mensagem e seus
> anexos não contêm vírus. É, assim, da responsabilidade do destinatário
> assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos são submetidos a detector de
> vírus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens
> transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas,
> perdidas, destruídas ou chegarem ao destino com atraso.
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:36:26 -0300
> From: Domingo Becker <domingobecker gmail com>
> Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation
> To: Fedora Translation Project List <fedora-trans-list redhat com>,
>        fedora-docs-list <fedora-docs-list redhat com>
> Message-ID:
>        <4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate
>>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really
>>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if
>>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more
>>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular
>>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill
>>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much
>>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is
>>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs?
>>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our
>>> community.
>
> I don't agree.
> I think it's necessary to document those changes, in a summary at least.
> Migration information is important too.
> If there are phrases the team doesn't understand, should be left in
> English. Someone will surely file a bug with the correct translation.
> It encourages other people to get involved.
>
>>>
>>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users
>>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English
>>> users!), resulting in wider audience.
>
> Probably.
> But then, where will that information go? the wiki?
> It should be somewhere! It's useful.
>
>>> It would be also easier to
>>> collaborate and maintain release notes.
>
> I guess we have so many untranslated string because of the change to
> publican. It looks like release notes has been rewritten entirely.
>
> +1 to the untranslated section mark.
> Translations should be used even if they are 30%.
> I usually translate first the information useful for the majority of
> users, then the rest.
>
> But now, is release notes read by all new users?
> I don't think so. But it doesn't make it less important.
> It should be read by users upgrading from previous releases, and I
> think anaconda advices to do so.
>
> Having the release notes this way we have now, makes users take
> conscience of how big the changes are since the last release, no more
> than 6 months ago. You don't see this amount of improvements in other
> OSs.
>
> Maybe a summary, but please keep up the good quality it used to have.
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Domingo Becker (es)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:03:42 +0300
> From: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini cs helsinki fi>
> Subject: Release Notes entry for the moin package
> To: fedora-docs-list redhat com
> Message-ID: <1239887022 3111 26 camel localhost localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Docs people,
>
> I recently took over as the moin package maintainer and I've updated it
> to 1.8.2 in F11, which is quite a bump from 1.6.3 in F-10 and it might
> need an entry in the Release Notes.
>
> Here's a list of things that might be worth mentioning, could someone
> from the Docs team help make this a real release note? :)
>
> - Lots of changes, users should start by going
>  through /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/CHANGES
>
> - Upstream documentation on how to update is
>  in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/UPDATE.html
>
> - Instructions on how to migrate the data directory are
>  in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README.migration - this file talks about
>  using the www-data user for running the migration, in Fedora there is
>  no such user, probably the best option is to run the script as root
>  and then do a chown -R apache:apache for the data directory
>  afterwards.
>
> - The documentation on how to set up moin in Fedora is updated, it's
>  at /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README-rpm
>
> - Users should make sure they update the configuration files, such as
>  wikiconfig.py, the 'server driver', such as moin.cgi, the underlay
>  directory and possibly the htdocs directory for their wiki instance.
>
>
> --
> Ville-Pekka Vainio
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list redhat com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
> End of fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19
> ************************************************
>


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