Docs team meeting 20090225 IRC log

[Karsten Wade]

Here in wiki format:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090225

... and attached as raw text.

-- 
Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener
http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
AD0E0C41
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11:01 < quaid> <meeting id="Docs team">
11:02 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg -- say hello :)
11:02 < quaid> hello
11:02 < jjmcd> bonjour
11:02 < kirkz> quaid: hi
11:03  * laubersm is here
11:03 < stickster> quaid: Is Sparks here for this one? I'm behind on email, sorry.
11:03  * stickster can't be 100% here either, unfortch
11:03  * lcafiero is here
11:04 < quaid> stickster: he asked me to cover this mtg for him
11:04 < stickster> OK, gotcha
11:04 < quaid> he's in an all-day at $2ork
11:04 < stickster> Just curious, no problem
11:04 < quaid> yeah, there 2
11:04 < quaid> ok, he left me some agenda items iirc
11:05 < laubersm> a new meeting time was a big one
11:05 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
11:05 < quaid> yep
11:05 -!- mcepl [n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting :::: meeting time change
11:05 < quaid> I would guess
11:05 < quaid> that if you haven't put your name in hereL
11:05 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix
11:06 < quaid> then you don't care what time it is?
11:06 < quaid> or you are choosing to not be a gating facter
11:06  * quaid tries ways to be fair
11:06  * laubersm thinks decisions are made by those that show up (and proxy counts)
11:06 < quaid> we have one block that gets five ppl
11:07 < quaid> sorry, two
11:07 < jjmcd> Except I would lean towards something ryanlerch can make eve if he isn't ususally here now
11:07 < quaid> jjmcd: we would need to know what he can make
11:07 < quaid> jjmcd: did he not put his name on there because he's available all day in BNE?
11:08 < jjmcd> I dunno, seems like Sparks talked to him but I don't know the outcome
11:08 < quaid> which would mean Thursday 00:00 (is that really Wednesday my time?)
11:08 < laubersm> quaid: yes
11:08 < jjmcd> yeh
11:08 < quaid> tricky bugger that
11:09 < laubersm> Thur 00:00 is PST 4pm Wed according to my printout here
11:09 < laubersm> which is EST 7pm
11:09 < quaid> yeppers, I remember why I approved that one for me, I was sure I could do it with the major royal screw-up that is daylight savings time adjustments
11:10 < jjmcd> Yeah, I had to extend all my normal meetings an hour to find holes that would straddle time changes
11:11 < laubersm> what time is that for RL?
11:11 < jjmcd> Probably some time tuesday, who knows
11:11  * laubersm has a chart just for US time zones
11:12 < laubersm> I had added myself to the popular Sat time (Fri night for me) but I still keep hoping that I'll get a life
11:12 < laubersm> (and I don't just mean Fri nights in the airport)
11:12 < jjmcd> GMT+11 so 11 AM
11:12 < quaid> BNE is +1000
11:12 < quaid> oh, OK
11:13 < quaid> so that's Thursday around elevenses
11:13 < jjmcd> yeah, or maybe 10 depending on the season
11:13 < jjmcd> But not sleeping probably unless too late in the bar
11:13 < quaid> since we can all technically be here around that time this afternoon, let's ping ryanlerch and make sure it works for him.
11:14  * laubersm thinks that sounds a lot like the outcome of last week's discussion...
11:15 < jjmcd> Yeah, except I think Sparks did talk with him
11:16 < laubersm> +1 for Thurs 00:00 UTC - put it out on the list and revisit if there is an explosion
11:16 < jjmcd> Sounds like a plan to me
11:16 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:17 -!- dkovalsk [n=dkovalsk at r11eu187.net.upc.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:17 < quaid> word
11:17 < laubersm> hmm... Damiels isn't in the THur list either...  re Users Guide.
11:17 -!- mbonnet is now known as mbonnet__
11:17 < laubersm> well hopefully he can make it some of the time (college schedule and all)
11:17 < quaid> good point
11:18 < quaid> right, we're working on a schedule that mayn't change for a while
11:18 < quaid> in fact, this time here has been steady for several years iirc
11:18 -!- itbegins_ [n=Simon at 212.183.134.130] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:18 < quaid> I see he is avail one hour before
11:18 < quaid> maybe we can start the meeting :15 early :)
11:19 < quaid> I've tried two hour meeting windows for just that reason before, which didn't work out so hot.
11:19 < laubersm> I like the maybe we can start early thing -
11:19 < laubersm> he is also good about sending a proxy (email)
11:19 < quaid> yep
11:19 < laubersm> and his schedule might change with the semesters
11:20  * quaid looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_meeting_channel
11:20 < quaid> looks good for keeping this channel
11:21 < quaid> the EPEL slot is not used I reckon
11:21  * quaid being on that steering committee and not meeting at that time that he can recall, or he is just lame
11:21 -!- mkoci_koca [n=mkoci at nat/redhat/x-b28f1ff124952678] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:21 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:22  * laubersm notes the EPEL page says Mon 15:00 UTC
11:22 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at user-24-214-179-165.knology.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:22 < jjmcd> hey speak of the devil
11:22  * danielsmw looks around
11:22  * laubersm points at danielsmw
11:23  * danielsmw hides in the corner from... something?
11:23 < laubersm> danielsmw: We are talking about new meeting times
11:23 < danielsmw> Oh!
11:23 < danielsmw> Okay.
11:23 < laubersm> Thus 00:00 is leading the pack
11:23 < laubersm> Thurs
11:23 < Jeff_S> laubersm: EPEL never seems to meet at that time... we were going to look into changing it (again) :)
11:23 < laubersm> danielsmw:  But you are not listed in that block as available
11:23 < danielsmw> um....
11:23 < danielsmw> well, let's see.
11:24 < quaid> Jeff_S: yeah, I'd like to help us get back on track there
11:24 < danielsmw> 00:00 = 7 PM EST, right?
11:24 < laubersm> danielsmw: That is Wed 7pm Eastern
11:24 < Jeff_S> quaid: me too :)
11:24 < danielsmw> right
11:24 < danielsmw> um...
11:24 < danielsmw> That's do-able.
11:24 < danielsmw> It's not as convenient as other times, but I can make that work.
11:24  * laubersm cheers
11:24 < jjmcd> well, 7PM for a few more days
11:24 < danielsmw> If that's the will of the party.
11:24 -!- StabbyMc [n=StabbyMc at 99-172-18-135.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:25 < laubersm> hmm  jjmcd is right - 7pm standard time - 8pm daylight savings time which starts soon
11:25  * laubersm thinks it is spring forward and fall back
11:26 < danielsmw> That sounds right
11:26 < jjmcd> yep which makes it 8
11:26  * jjmcd thinks we are far too technological a society to be worshiping the sun god anyway
11:27 < laubersm> beginning Mar 8
11:27 < quaid> jjmcd: or we could just give up on our silly artificial conventions and go back to worshipping the sun god, either way
11:27 < danielsmw> so 00:00 UTC starting March 8th?
11:27 < quaid> yes
11:27 < danielsmw> March 8th UTC?
11:28 < danielsmw> Oh right, that's DST.
11:28 < danielsmw> Okay.
11:28 < laubersm> 00:00 on Thursdays starting - ?????
11:28 < laubersm> March is when that the time changes
11:28 < quaid> oh dear
11:28 -!- hondra [n=cschu at nat/redhat/x-490de093a5c6acad] has quit ["chramst..mlask..hehehe"]
11:28 < quaid> but that's the way it is
11:28 < laubersm> when thinking local clock
11:29 -!- lcafiero [n=larry at dsl-63-249-115-153.cruzio.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:29 < quaid> last open question was.
11:29 < laubersm> quaid: new meeting time next week?  or the following (after the EST->EDT change)
11:29 < quaid> are we going to start a few minutes early? or 0000 is OK?
11:29 < jjmcd> I'm for dividing the year into 100 days and the day into 100 hours and stop all this 7/24/28/29/30/31 nonsense
11:29 < danielsmw> good call jjmcd
11:29 < danielsmw> metric for the win.
11:30 < jjmcd> Until Mar 8 I can only be a few minutes early.  After that don't matter
11:30 < nirik> jjmcd: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
11:30 < jjmcd> danielsmw: if we did it right we might even get rid of the leap second
11:31  * laubersm notices we are once again too distracted....
11:31 < danielsmw> I mean, look, do we really need to base years on the seasons?
11:31 < danielsmw> I say we just reboot at year 0 and base it off a physical constant
11:31 < danielsmw> Anyway, yeah
11:31  * quaid notes that much of the world does care about the seasons intimately
11:31 < danielsmw> sorry laubersm
11:31 < quaid> let us not forget that as we sit in our wee towers :)
11:31 < quaid> how about this:
11:32 < quaid> put in your vote for start new time at 8 march or 15 march
11:32  * quaid 8 march
11:32 < laubersm> wait
11:32 < laubersm> Mar 8 is a Sunday
11:32 < jjmcd> So Mar 11 or 18
11:32 < jjmcd> 11
11:33  * laubersm Thurs March 12 00:00 UTC
11:33 < jjmcd> yes, exactly
11:33 < laubersm> I think we are all agreeing on the week at least :)
11:33 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:33 < quaid> sorry
11:34  * quaid blames the flu
11:34 < jjmcd> excuses, excuses
11:34  * laubersm is almost over it
11:34 < quaid> umm, what about 4 Mar then?
11:35 < jjmcd> 4 mar 1900 or 5 mar 0000?  I could go either way
11:35 < laubersm> I would say just skip a week - but feature freeze is next week so I guess we should meet
11:35 < quaid> we should
11:35 < quaid> sorry, let's do this right, give me a moment:
11:35 -!- lcafiero [n=larry at dsl-63-249-115-153.cruzio.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:35 < quaid> vote 5 Mar 0000, or
11:36 < quaid> vote 12 Mar 0000, or
11:36 < quaid> vote 19 Mar 0000
11:36 < quaid> right?
11:36  * quaid votes 5 Mar
11:36  * laubersm 5 Mar 0000
11:36  * danielsmw Abstains
11:37 < jjmcd> 5 mar 0000
11:38 < kirkz> 5 mar
11:39 < quaid> ok then
11:39 < quaid> we'll start next week
11:39 -!- fbijlsma [n=fbijlsma at p54B2F6FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:39 < quaid> and with that ...
11:39 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :::: Wiki page changes
11:40 < quaid> I'm guessing we'd love to hear what laubersm has been up to?
11:40 < laubersm> Progress is being made
11:40 < laubersm> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project
11:40 < laubersm> I can finish up the docsproject.psv list by tomorrow - but I don't mind letting someone else do the
11:40 < laubersm> cut and paste work
11:41 < laubersm> most are in the categories now
11:41 < laubersm> (don't forget to look in the sub cats)
11:41 < laubersm> but a bunch still need someone to use the "move" tab
11:42 < laubersm> Then we need to clean up the remaining content to be usable
11:42 < laubersm> This step took care of names, categories, and an initial pass at archiving
11:43 < quaid> how hard was it?
11:43 < laubersm> hard?  not at all
11:43 < laubersm> boring?  eye crossing?  tedious?
11:44 < jjmcd> just tedious
11:44  * laubersm wishes wikibot could have done it.
11:44  * quaid agrees, sadly
11:44 < laubersm> quaid: you did the hard part - filtering out what to archive, what to name, and what categories
11:44 < quaid> but we did get one new value.
11:44 < quaid> we know that if we expect people to rename their pages
11:45 < jjmcd> But there were a lot of category issues we would have missed had we just done wikibot
11:45 < quaid> they will not do it by hand and we need wikibot :)
11:45 -!- John5342 [n=john5342 at fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:45 < laubersm> There are still plenty of pages to be cleaned up - in and out of docs
11:45 < quaid> jjmcd: after cleaning up the PSV?
11:45 < quaid> or you mean, existing categories on pages?
11:45 < jjmcd> I didn't update the psv
11:46 < jjmcd> Some obvious categories missing on psv
11:46  * quaid meant all the case mistakes he made in the categories in the PSV ref. cleaning up
11:46 < quaid> presuming a clean PSV to start, what would wikibot have missed for us?
11:46 < laubersm> I cleanup up the the archive -> archives and a few of the case things
11:46 < laubersm> there were not many left
11:47 < laubersm> quaid: I think wikibot would have been fine after another proofreading of the psv file
11:48 < jjmcd> Yes, if one could get brain engaged reading psv
11:48 -!- StabbyMc [n=StabbyMc at 99-172-18-135.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has left #fedora-meeting ["Stab ya later!"]
11:49 -!- jmoskovc` [n=Mozkum at nat/redhat/x-008bc2f54ac5df59] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:49 < laubersm> I'm working on getting StabbyMc to take a stab at the Events/ and FedoraEvents/ pages
11:49 < quaid> cool, that's good
11:49 < laubersm> (no that he has left)
11:49 < quaid> laubersm: wow
11:49 < quaid> that would be cool
11:49 < quaid> yeah, we need FedoraEvents as a URL to disappear
11:50 < laubersm> marketing has started their pages
11:50 < laubersm> package maintainers is basically done
11:50 < laubersm> packaging drafts is getting there
11:52 < laubersm> but the event stuff showing up in searches for new users and contributors would be really good
11:52 < quaid> coo'
11:52 < quaid> wiki gardening lives!
11:52 < quaid> anything more or time to bug ke4qqq?
11:53  * laubersm has been done
11:53 < quaid> and are we in fact gating on ke4qqq to make more progress on the CMS?
11:53  * quaid said 'gating'! argh!
11:54 < quaid> don't think anyone here can answer, huh?
11:54 < quaid> abadger1999: ping
11:54 < abadger1999> quaid: pong
11:55 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:55 < itbegins_> i am here
11:55 < abadger1999> I think that's the case.  itbegins, you talked to ke4qqq last.
11:55 < abadger1999> We're just waiting on packaging?
11:55 < itbegins_> i am waiting on packaging before i can reinstall the test instance
11:55 < quaid> he's made progress, but what I really mean is ...
11:55 < quaid> can we be making progress without packages?
11:55 < quaid> ok, I see
11:56 < quaid> could the Docs people be entering stuff in that survives the reinstall?
11:56 < itbegins_> the only areas i have to really deal with are theme/design and the dics build script
11:56 < quaid> can someone be working on the final tweaks to the CSS?
11:56 < quaid> ok
11:56 < quaid> do you need help with the theme?
11:56 < itbegins_> the database will survive packaging, so yes
11:56 < quaid> we have Websites/Design people with CSS experience.
11:57 < itbegins_> design is not my strongpoint, but I can probably handle a simple port
11:57 < quaid> abadger1999: what do you think about us entering stuff? we could  be getting used to using it for publishing?
11:57 < itbegins_> if you want changes, getting the design people to handle it might be a good plan
11:57 < quaid> itbegins_: if you have any questions, feel free to use fedora-websites-list
11:57 < quaid> nah, we want to look like Fedora
11:57 < quaid> and it's probably worth showing your CSS to -websites-l
11:57 < itbegins_> might be worth it anyway, so they are familiar with the new system?...
11:58 < quaid> mduffy has some good ideas on how to nest the CSS, or something
11:58 < quaid> itbegins_: peripherally, they should be aware
11:58 < itbegins_> Sorry, slow to type, on mobile
11:58 < abadger1999> quaid: Probably be okay..... We would need to dump the test db and reload it on the production mysql server when we do a real deploy.
11:59 < quaid> abadger1999: sure, that was what I meant :) ... if that's likely safe enough ...
11:59 < abadger1999> permissions are stored in the same db?
11:59 < itbegins_> ok, well Ill see what I can do about finishing the css, and Ill chase progress on the build script
11:59 < quaid> itbegins_: we can discuss on list when it's safest for Docs people to start actually doing stuff to populate with structure and content.
11:59 < itbegins_> abadger1999: yes, access control and content are all the same db
11:59 < quaid> s/on list/on docs list/
11:59 < abadger1999> Can we dump the docs but not the permissions and reload those in the new db? Or will that mess up authorship and such?
12:00 < itbegins_> abadger1999: shouldn't be a problem, providin,g we dont dump user records
12:00 < quaid> jjmcd: if you 've got a second, can you say a quick update on the release notes for the IRC log
12:00 < jjmcd> OK
12:00 < abadger1999> itbegins_: I think we can live with that.
12:00 < jjmcd> Been a little slow past week here - computer probls
12:01 < jjmcd> I need some help with F10 update
12:01 < jjmcd> Otherwise not a lot of news really, plugging along
12:01 < itbegins_> ok, Ill duck out now, supposed to be sitting at a restaurant table...
12:01 < quaid> itbegins_: :)
12:01 < quaid> jjmcd: do you all have a recruitment plan for Beats?  or something like that?
12:02 < quaid> in my experience, getting a wide range of valuable content from the real sources is the hardest nut to crack.
12:02 < quaid> jjmcd: I'm available to help you with F10 update, if anybody
12:02 < jjmcd> Not a plan, am doing some recruiting but more or less andom
12:02 < quaid> ok, when we see ryanlerch later let's ask him what he thinks and etc.?
12:02 < jjmcd> but a strategy would be a good thing
12:02 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk
12:02 < quaid> ok,we're over the clock
12:03 < quaid> I think there is a mtg here and time to move on anyway
12:03 < jjmcd> (onna phone with some pretty strange stuff)
12:03 < quaid> if there is anything more for the record ....
12:03  * quaid counts down
12:03 < quaid> 5
12:03 < quaid> 4
12:03 < quaid> 3
12:03 < quaid> 2
12:03 < quaid> 1
12:03 < quaid> </meeting>
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