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Docs Meeting Log 2009-05-20



Summary to follow shortly

Prettified wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090520

Raw text below:
20:00 < Sparks> <meeting id="Docs">
20:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting
- Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
20:00 < Sparks> Roll call...
20:00  * Sparks is here
20:00  * ke4qqq is here
20:01  * sk0rd is here
20:01  * jjmcd is somewhere
20:02  * rudi is here
20:02  * laubersm is here
20:03  * Sparks gives a few more minutes for everyone to show up
20:03  * laubersm goes to get a drink - brb
20:03 < ianweller> if you need me, ping me, i'll be distracted mostly
20:03 < Sparks> ianweller: We need you
20:03 < ianweller> *thud*
20:05 < Sparks> Okay...  let's get started.
20:05 < laubersm> mmmm
20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Can you handle the log for tonight?
20:05 < ke4qqq> sure
20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Thanks
20:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting
- Release Announcement
20:06 < Sparks> Okay...  This has been moved up to high priority.
20:06  * ianweller removes that pot from the back burner
20:06 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11
20:06 < Sparks> I had writer's block over the weekend and I won't be
around this weekend.
20:07 < Sparks> Since the release has been pushed back by a week we
have a little breathing room...
20:07 < SgtDitt> here
20:07 < Sparks> however we need to get this done ASAP so the
translators can get on it.
20:07 < Sparks> Who can write up a draft that we can look at?
20:08 < Sparks> Don't everyone volunteer at once, now... I'd hate to
crash the IRC network
20:09 < Sparks> ianweller: Do you have some time to write an opening
paragraph for the announcement?
20:09 < rudi> Sparks - I can do it, but it will be a few days before I
get to it.
20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: "We're awesome."
20:09 < rudi> (over the weekend0
20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: but in all seriousness i could come up
withs omething and get it to the list tonight
20:09 < Sparks> rudi: Okay.  The schedule says that we were supposed
to begin this today and have it done by Friday...  that was before the
push
20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: put it on the wiki... that way it's already there
20:10 < ianweller> well, yeah. ping the list that i actually did it too
20:10 < Sparks> yeah
20:10 < ianweller> that was what i meant to say :P
20:10 < Sparks> :)
20:10 < Sparks> Cool
20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: rudi: thanks!
20:11 < sk0rd> I'll shoot for a draft on the page as well
20:11 < ianweller> so the rel announcement is gonna be i18n'd?
20:11 < Sparks> How is this presented to the "customers"?
20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: Supposedly
20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: which is confusing me because I'm not sure
how it's being propagated
20:12 < ianweller> Sparks: mailing list usually
20:12 < Sparks> Maybe we can get that answer when stickster_afk shows up.
20:12 < Sparks> ianweller: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  Maybe I
misread the schedule
20:13 < laubersm> I think we are reposonsible for an English
annoucement for emails.  But a lot of locations like to translate and
tweak it for their regions
20:13 < laubersm> I do not think it has ever been a tranfix thing
20:13 < Sparks> I'm good with that.
20:13 < laubersm> but that may of changed...
20:13 < jjmcd> The instructions say to keep that in mind
20:13 < ianweller> yeah so write it as if it were to be translated
20:13 < Sparks> So should they be put somewhere and "translated" into XML?
20:14 < jjmcd> Some translated literally, other parts may be radically
revised in translation
20:14 < jjmcd> I don't think so.  Sounds like most will be rewritten
for the target geography
20:14 < laubersm> Sparks, I do think we have in the past but we'll
have to check with our elders (quaid, stickster_afk )
20:14 < laubersm> opp
20:14 < laubersm> do NOT think we have
20:15 < Sparks> laubersm: Yeah, where are those old people?
20:16 < Sparks> Okay...  looks like we have this moving
20:16 < Sparks> I appreciate it.
20:16 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for
video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives"
20:16 < laubersm> too snarky ?
20:16 < Sparks> Nope
20:16 < Sparks> :)
20:17 < Sparks> Okay, we'll talk about this more after the meeting...
20:17 < Sparks> any questions?
20:17  * jjmcd will be sure to be around to make jabs at ianweller
20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Much appreciated
20:17 < Sparks> Okay... moving on...
20:17 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting
- Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
20:17 < Sparks> How are them there Release Notes coming?
20:18  * jjmcd hasn't caught up on all the cool stuff laubersm, rudi,
zoglesby, etc. did while he was playing at Dayton
20:18 < laubersm> jjmcd, yeah about that....
20:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: Oh there were many things that happened while
you were away
20:19 < laubersm> I think rudi was on top of adding the last minutes
items and getting a new pot
20:19 < rudi> Yep all done.
20:19 < laubersm> I assume everything else just goes on the wiki
20:19 < jjmcd> We do a 0-day RPM
20:20 < rudi> There were a couple of bugs filed overnight about
Section IDs and re-adding the Common Bugs section from F10
20:20 < jjmcd> Yeah, I saw that
20:20 < rudi> I've confirmed that we could do this with practically no
impact to L10N
20:20 < laubersm> jjmcd, from what is being translated now?  or are we
pushing one more pot too?
20:20 < Sparks> I've noted a few messages on the list talking about updates
20:20 < jjmcd> If nobody else is making a bunch of changes I can go
ahead and add the id's
20:21 < jjmcd> We are scheduled to push a pot immediately after release
20:21 < jjmcd> seemd weird but
20:21 < laubersm> jjmcd, I think that one is to then update docs.fp.o
20:21 < rudi> jjmcd I've got them done and ready to push...
20:21 < jjmcd> yes, i think that is correct
20:21 < laubersm> no more rpms after GA - though we could push one
through updates if we wanted
20:21 < jjmcd> cool
20:22  * quaid is able to be here now for a short bit
20:22 < rudi> There was also a request to add a note about libguestfs,
but I think this is way too late now, yes?
20:22  * jjmcd is doing some reports for MSP, not going well, Eric's
writer's block is catching
20:23 < laubersm> if anything else comes in before we build the ga rpm
- then it sounds like we can add a link to the wiki info without
bothering the translators
20:23 < laubersm> is that true?
20:23 < quaid> translators? for release announcement?
20:23  * quaid is confused now
20:23 < jjmcd> We did get a week push back
20:23 < laubersm> then it is "in" the rpm for those looking there to
know there is more info "somewhere"
20:24 < jjmcd> quaid: previous topic
20:24 < sk0rd> can someone speak more to the push back? docs is my
only insight as to what's going on
20:24 < quaid> jjmcd: we need to revisit when we get a chance, there
is a misconception underway
20:24 < ke4qqq> sk0rd: we'll talk in #f-d
20:24 < quaid> sk0rd: release engineering in yesterday's meetings
declared a week slip in the schedule
20:24 < Sparks> quaid: I must have misread the schedule.  There isn't
anything about translating the annoucement on there now
20:25 < quaid> Sparks: can I speak on that now?  or wait until a topic
change soonest?
20:25 < Sparks> quaid: Go for it
20:25 < quaid> ok, I've tried to make this clear on some wiki page
that I can't find right now :)
20:25 < quaid> there are two deliverables --
20:25 < jjmcd>    /Releases/Announcements
20:26 < quaid> 1. A set of clear top-five talking points for _others_
to use when constructing their own, native language, locale-specific
(humor, no humor, etc.) release announcement
20:26 < quaid> 2. A whimsical, English-only release announcement that
i) uses those same talking points (functionally similar to locally
written announcements), but ii) is not for
               l10n itself because of idiomatic/culture specific content
20:27 < quaid> it is the latter that is the main need from Docs
20:27 < quaid> the former is more handled by Marketing, but $someone
needs to tell f-amb-l and f-trans-l
20:27 < quaid> that the points are ready for them to use for their own
locale-specific write-up.
20:27 < quaid> <eof>
20:28 < jjmcd> OK, that was mostly my understanding except it wasn't
clear that Marketing was handling the former, Docs the latter, nor was
the top-five clear
20:29 < jjmcd>  Releases/Announcements makes it sound like some undefined body
20:29 < quaid> well, to be honest, I'm not clear if Marketing has that
former task on their schedule
20:29 < laubersm> that is even easier than what I said - I thought 1
came more from 2 ... but that it was still just a write up (no xml or
tx from docs).
20:29 < quaid> I sort-of dropped that ball this release, since I've
been the main driver on that for the last several
20:29 < quaid> laubersm: it's also honestly fun -- you should do it!
20:29 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for
video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives"
20:29 < laubersm> that was my attempt :)
20:30 < quaid> heh
20:30 < laubersm> seems a bit snarky even for the english version
20:30 < laubersm> :)
20:30 < jjmcd> laubersm, seems to me Fedora's image is a little
"corporate", snarky might be good
20:30 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcement_template
20:31 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements
20:31 < quaid> there we go!
20:31 < sk0rd> the l10n reference is a bit obscure. With the art team
working on grecian references, why not duplicate the theme
20:31 < quaid> that has a link to all previous whimsical announcements
20:31  * laubersm notes it is only in a Marketing Category - no wonder
we we didn't have it here in docs...
20:31 < quaid> there is no pattern on theme duplication or ref. to
release name, although that is a popular theme.
20:32  * laubersm logs into wiki...
20:32 < quaid> um, [[Release_announcements]] is in [[Category:Docs Project]]
20:33 < laubersm> the template is not
20:33 < laubersm> or WAS not
20:33 < laubersm> :)
20:33  * laubersm also moved the [[Category: to the bottom where it belongs
20:33 < Sparks> laubersm: ianweller will thank you
20:34 < laubersm> :)
20:34 < jjmcd> hmmmm, reading the F10 announcement, I hope there was
an en-GB version
20:35 < Sparks> ?
20:35 < jjmcd> might work for nl, or even en-AU, but not the straight
laced Brits
20:35  * ianweller thanks laubersm
20:35 < Sparks> laubersm: See, I told you
20:37 < quaid> one other point, not sure if it is on that page ...
20:37 < quaid> but the whimsical announcement must be approved by the
sitting FPL, in this case, stickster_afk
20:37 < quaid> just give him ~24 hours heads up
20:37 < jjmcd> most of us would value his counsel anyway
20:38 < Sparks> most of us wonder why he bails on us these days
20:38 < jjmcd> Probably he has more to do than just chill on IRC, just guessing
20:38 < jjmcd> Isn't he about to head to Romania?
20:39 < Sparks> Probably
20:39 < Sparks> I don't know... haven't heard anything about Romania
20:39 < sk0rd> ok, next topic?
20:39 < sk0rd> ;)
20:39 < Sparks> Okay.. anything else on the announcement?
20:39  * quaid is done and has to vaporize now
20:39 < jjmcd> I thought I heard he was speaking in Bucharest this weekend
20:39 < Sparks> wow
20:40 < Sparks> Okay... anything else on the RNs?
20:40 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting
- Review http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html
schedule
20:40 < jjmcd> </rn>
20:40 < rudi> Just confirmation that we agree that libguestfs is too late?
20:41 < Sparks> too late for zero-day?
20:41 < rudi> Yeah
20:41 < jjmcd> The schedule saysfinal snapshot today and release
pushed back a week, so I would say no, not too late
20:41 < Sparks> yeah, I think we should take advantage of the push
20:41 < rudi> OK - but I guess we should get confirmation that L10N is
happy with that...
20:42 < jjmcd> I agree
20:42 < rudi> OK - I'll ask :)
20:42 < jjmcd> today = today zulu time
20:43 < rudi> Doesn't that mean that the translations would need to be
completed by today?
20:44 < Sparks> how many changes need to be fixed?
20:44 < jjmcd> It says build rpm 5/25
20:44 < jjmcd> Seems like there has been a flood of bugs today
20:45 < rudi> Sparks - the section IDs (fixed), the Common Bugs
section (fixed, but one problem), and the request to add libguestfs to
the RN
20:45 < Sparks> so...  five lines?
20:46 < rudi> Checking...
20:46 < rudi> Yep
20:47 < Sparks> cool
20:47 < Sparks> that shouldn't be too bad to "repair'
20:48 < rudi> There are also requests for documentation of two bugs,
one in anaconda and one in libfprint, but I think they can go on the
Common bugs page on the wiki, yes?
20:48 < Sparks> I would think so
20:50 < Sparks> Anything else?
20:50 < rudi> Not that I'm aware of
20:50 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Guides
20:50 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour I'm not going to go through all the guides
20:51 < Sparks> does anyone need anything for their guides or is
anyone having any problems?
20:51  * ke4qqq needs more time
20:51 < Sparks> for the IG?
20:51 < ke4qqq> but thankfully rudi is doing a great job of keep things moving
20:51 < Sparks> You have a week more!
20:52 < ke4qqq> lol wow - granted my wish :)
20:52 < rudi> ke4qqq - what needs doing?
20:52 < ke4qqq> rudi: I was talking about I need more time - as far as
I know the IG is in good shape, we probably need to get the final
release ready (get rid of draft tag) but we
                can talk in a bit and not hold up the meeting
20:53 < rudi> OK - yep :)
20:54 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting
- Open Floor
20:54 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything they want to discuss?
20:54 < rudi> Translators have noticed a couple of glitches in the
big, merged PO files for both the IG and UG, but I've suggested we
wait until Transifex 0.6 is available rather than
              do anything about these now
20:54 < ke4qqq> Me!
20:54 < jjmcd> Do I gather we have agreement on everything in Publican for 12?:
20:54 < sk0rd> I did, heck if I can remember.
20:54 < ke4qqq> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF   <--- Docs FAD
20:54 < laubersm> jjmcd, I agree - but can we have less than everything ?
20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not yet
20:55 < sk0rd> ah, new contributors, hand raised when ready.
20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like to have a free minute or two to really
think about it.  I didn't see anything objectionable, though
20:55 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Okay... go with your shameless plug
20:56 < ke4qqq> honestly I think we are in a poor place to make that
decision jjmcd - immediately before release - extremely busy with all
of that - might make for less than reasoned
                look.
20:56 < ke4qqq> We have a docs fad at the above link
20:56 < ke4qqq> you should all attend
20:56 < ke4qqq> (And SELF the day before)
20:56 < ke4qqq> ianweller is going to teach packaging
20:56 < Sparks> ke4qqq: That's all you got?
20:56 < jjmcd> ke4qqq, I can buy that.  I was just hoping to check one
more thing off the list :-)
20:56 < ke4qqq> and hopefully we can hash this out.
20:56  * Sparks is still contemplating on how to get down there
20:56 < ke4qqq> that is it from me
20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: how many Fedora hams are going to be there?
20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Maybe a designated simplex freq?
20:57  * laubersm prods Sparks to get to the "new contributor" before
time runs out
20:57 < ke4qqq> 2 that I know of.
20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: ok
20:57 < ke4qqq> I'll add that
20:57 < Sparks> sk0rd: Go ahead!
20:58 < sk0rd> I've been really happy with the time that people have
spent with me, but I've noticed quite a few introductions and whatnot
through the mailing list
20:58  * jjmcd has been emailing applicants to get intros
20:58 < sk0rd> as far as getting people involved, does anyone have any
thoughts on improving the documentation on... joining documentation
and getting started?
20:59 < Sparks> sk0rd: We need to get on that as well.  This is just a
really "bad" time to join as we are rushing to get everything finished
for the release
20:59 < laubersm> I think a lot of us have ideas but no one has
settled down enough to get it done.
20:59 < laubersm> sk0rd, I came in about this time one release ago to
the same issues
20:59 < Sparks> but we should make it a priority to be better with
being able to get new members on track early
20:59 < sk0rd> Sparks, it is so for senior contributors yes
21:00 < jjmcd> Sparks, gotta strike while the iron is hot, tho
21:00 < Sparks> Oh, I agree!
21:00 < sk0rd> perhaps I'll try and hit on it
21:00 < Sparks> There will be changes for F12.
21:00 < sk0rd> </comment>
21:00 < laubersm> sk0rd, no - any one - if there is something that
wasn't clear to you before and somehow is now - please jump in and
expand in the join docs!
21:01 < laubersm> I and others have been prodding quaid and
stickster_afk to go through and "fix up" the pages too
21:01 < laubersm> with their years of wisdom
21:01 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oh i am teaching packaging? interesting.
21:01 < Sparks> ianweller: You are now
21:01 < ke4qqq> by fiat
21:01 < jjmcd> you are our leading expert
21:01 < ke4qqq> :)
21:01 < laubersm> ianweller, the CMS is to be all packaged before you can sleep
21:02 < laubersm> the more people you teach, the more likely you will
get to sleep
21:02  * laubersm says knowing she will not be able to be there
21:02 < ianweller> looks like i'm getting no sleep
21:02 < ke4qqq> ianweller: I tried to get jds2001, but looks like he
is unavailable
21:02 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oic.
21:02 < ke4qqq> and then Max said sending you was 'the right thing to do'
21:02 < ke4qqq> :)
21:03 < ianweller> i saw that
21:04 < jjmcd> THat way you'll be all practiced up to teach at FUDcon
21:05 < Sparks> Okay, anything else?
21:07 < Sparks> I'd like to mention that I'll be helping my wife move
for the summer (summer internship) beginning tomorrow and I won't be
back until Monday.  I won't have Internet
                access during this time so I'm turning over the conn
to jjmcd for the weekend.
21:07 < laubersm> excellent!
21:07  * jjmcd will be around
21:08 < Sparks> Okay, anything else?
21:08 < jjmcd> Sparks, Does that mean you will be batching it for the summer?
21:08 < Sparks> jjmcd: pretty much
21:08 < Sparks> pizza and soda all summer long
21:08 < jjmcd> Ooooh, bad.  Gotta fend for yourself
21:09  * jjmcd suspects Sparks needs time in .de to learn things that
go better with pizza
21:09 < Sparks> I have some projects to work on over the summer...
maybe that will keep me out of trouble.
21:09  * Sparks is too poor to go to .de...
21:09 < Sparks> okay, anything else?
21:09 < Sparks> 5
21:09 < Sparks> 4
21:10 < Sparks> 3
21:10 < Sparks> 2
21:10 < Sparks> 1
21:10 < Sparks> </meeting>


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