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IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 29 Nov 2005

(21:07:00) quaid: <meeting>
(21:07:03) quaid: hi all
(21:07:08) stickster: Hi quaid!
(21:07:11) Bob-Laptop: Hi quaid 
(21:07:14) G2: Hi
(21:07:49) stickster: elliss is here, q.v. above... that's quorum!
(21:08:28) Bob-Laptop: Hi G2 
(21:08:30) megacoder: I'm free
(21:09:24) quaid:
(21:09:44) quaid: lessee ...
(21:10:01) quaid: on the first item, I did hear of some good movement, a
partner is picking up some of the JPEG library problems
(21:10:14) quaid: still doesn't sound like enough will land in FC5 test
cycle :(
(21:11:49) stickster: Maybe we should scootch that down in the P1 tasks
a little since it's a bit demoralizing to see only a little traction at
a time on the first item every week ;-D
(21:12:45) G2: Hi Bob-Laptop 
(21:13:00) stickster: DocsRawhide is up though, that's a good thing
(21:14:07) stickster: Has Elliot seen the draft.css change that
megacoder did?
(21:14:14) quaid: probably not
(21:14:41) elliss: It doesn't seem to be updating from CVS
(21:14:45) quaid: stickster: but it's your build script, can you update
it to use make draft?
(21:15:14) stickster: Well, I suppose I could, if I had access to it any
(21:15:14) megacoder: I was wondering whether we should change the
polarity on this: default to the draft CSS and then explicitly change it
to production-like status.
(21:15:35) elliss: Sounds like a good idea
(21:15:55) stickster: No, not a bad idea at all
(21:17:20) megacoder: Wait, what question just got a consensus?
(21:17:33) stickster: megacoder: Yours
(21:17:55) quaid: yeah, I like that too
(21:17:56) megacoder: OK, I'll do that in CVS in a moment then.
(21:18:05) stickster: But I think the DocsRawhide should do it as well
(21:18:18) quaid: 'make production' :)
(21:18:21) stickster: I don't have any access to that system, so someone
who does will need to change it
(21:18:27) quaid: no access?
(21:18:28) megacoder: yup, me too. I mean "I, also".
(21:18:30) quaid: not now or not ever?
(21:18:45) quaid: neither of you?
(21:18:45) stickster: not ever
(21:19:11) quaid: oh ... I thought he drew from /cvs/docs/common/bin/ ?
(21:19:25) quaid: so you could update there and he'd use that as the new
build script
(21:19:31) quaid: so you can change the target there
(21:19:32) quaid: however
(21:19:43) stickster: Oh... I didn't know that
(21:19:44) quaid: megacoder changing default to use the draft.css does
the same thing.
(21:19:45) stickster: Duh
(21:20:01) quaid: yeah, that's how we update the list of docs, etc.,
bright designer boy
(21:20:03) stickster: Right
(21:21:15) stickster: Except I have a bit of user interaction at the end
I would have thought Elliot would remove if he put it in play... maybe
he just pipes "yes y" to it
(21:22:29) elliss: Perhaps not
(21:22:36) elliss: It isn't running
(21:22:37) stickster: Maybe that's why it's not building! :-D (jk)
(21:23:01) stickster: I should try removing that... hang on
(21:24:08) quaid: actually, that could be
(21:24:09) stickster: k
(21:24:19) quaid: elliss: I've seen it build in the past, that is, take
on new content
(21:24:27) elliss: Sure
(21:24:40) elliss: Check Paul's Mirror tutorial though
(21:24:47) elliss: And the Release Notes
(21:24:49) stickster: Yeah, and it seemed to be automatic then... but
maybe he put something in place at some point *afterward* to autoupdate
the script
(21:25:17) quaid: stickster: can you follow up with sopwith, who ain't
here!, to see if something is broke?
(21:25:26) stickster: sure thing
(21:26:02) quaid: anything else on docsrawhide?
(21:26:33) elliss: Once we're happy with it, we should advertise it
(21:26:51) elliss: Fedora Announce etc.
(21:26:52) quaid: thought sopwith did that already
(21:26:58) quaid: he announced it there first day
(21:27:06) quaid: but, yeah, we can certainly make it more lively
(21:27:16) quaid: talk about it, link to it, maybe a formal announcement
(21:27:17) stickster: Email sent to ELee
(21:27:23) quaid: but I'm not happy with it yet
(21:27:33) quaid: I want to see more than just basic HTML built
(21:27:39) elliss: ?
(21:27:40) quaid: tarball, at least
(21:27:50) stickster: It's already getting its address floated around on
the lists, so whatever needs to be done should probably be addressed
sooner rather than later
(21:27:50) elliss: I'm against that
(21:27:57) quaid: PDF as an optional switch in the parent-xml file or
(21:28:05) quaid: elliss: I'm sorry?
(21:28:14) quaid: oh, right, see
(21:28:22) quaid: two different purposes here
(21:28:35) quaid: I want the script to also grab according to tags
(21:28:56) quaid: so we can tag and retag content as a release, and have
it just updated via the autobuild functionality.
(21:29:14) elliss: OK.
(21:29:18) quaid: of those builds, one will be HEAD
(21:29:31) quaid: and that one we can choose to not deliver tarballs, or
be sure they have the draft.css in use, or whatever.
(21:29:37) quaid: same with PDFs when possible.
(21:29:52) elliss: So a central site for docs material ?
(21:30:26) elliss: fedora.redhat.com going away AIUI
(21:30:57) quaid: fp.or/docs
(21:30:59) quaid: same tree, for now
(21:35:08) stickster: ??
(21:37:07) quaid: f.r.c/docs -> fp.o/docs ?
(21:37:32) stickster: right... just wondering where everyone disappeared
(21:37:43) Sopwith [n=sopwith nat-pool-rdu redhat com] entered the room.
(21:38:01) ***quaid adds the task of "preparing for transition to fp.o"
(21:38:10) Sopwith: yo
(21:38:16) stickster: Hey, there's the man
(21:38:25) Bob-Laptop: Speak of the Devil
(21:38:36) stickster: Now that's just rude Bob ;-D
(21:38:39) Bob-Laptop: lol
(21:38:56) G2: Hi Sopwith 
(21:39:02) quaid: stickster: long meeting today :)
(21:39:05) stickster: Sopwith: sent you a piece of mail re:
DocsRawhide... no building seems to be happening right now
(21:39:07) Sopwith: stickster: I don't know if he *wants* it, but nman64
has root access to the box that builds docs rawhide.
(21:39:12) stickster: Ah
(21:39:16) Sopwith: I just tried running the build manually.
(21:39:17) stickster: So I can bug him then ;-)
(21:39:38) ***quaid is done with his call
(21:39:42) Sopwith: stickster: I did have to change your script a bit -
I should send it back to you :)
(21:40:22) stickster: For a minute I thought we could have it pull the
script, but that seems like asking for security nightmares
(21:40:43) Sopwith: That too
(21:41:36) stickster: nman64: If you're around, want to get in on this
(21:41:39) Sopwith: There were a few messages like the following:
(21:41:48) Sopwith: cp: cannot stat `translation-guide-en/*': No such
file or directory
(21:42:14) stickster: Hm
(21:42:16) Sopwith: stickster: I really appreciate you putting that
script together, though - it was exactly what was needed to get things
(21:42:22) stickster: Sorry it's not better
(21:42:24) Sopwith: I'll e-mail you the latest one right away.
(21:42:30) stickster: I'm running it locally on my box and it seems to
be OK so far
(21:42:42) stickster: I'll look at the new copy and see what I can
see :-)
(21:43:03) megacoder: "Render draft by default" is now in CVS.
(21:43:09) stickster: megacoder: bitchin
(21:43:30) megacoder: See if it works for you, someone.
(21:44:21) stickster: fANTASTIC
(21:44:42) ***stickster fires typist but thanks megacoder 
(21:44:56) Sopwith: I'm more than happy to let one or two people have
access to troubleshoot problems like this. Once we have the sysadmin
system a bit more stabilized, it'll be easier to give out access to more
people to actually do config changes.
(21:45:45) stickster: Sopwith: understood
(21:45:50) quaid: sweet!
(21:46:02) stickster: megacoder: Now for a "make production" or
something like that, right?
(21:46:22) quaid: megacoder: can you send an email about the draft.css
change to the list? specify how to get the new images (cvs co -d) and
how to build a non-draft version, ok?
(21:47:24) megacoder: OK, as soon as I figure out how best to handle the
"make production" target. I'll start on the email now.
(21:47:54) quaid: okey dokey
(21:48:01) quaid: I'll be here to test for at least the next 3 hours
(21:49:15) quaid: hmm ... we may need to tone the red down a bit
(21:49:20) quaid: I can read it, but does it bother others?
(21:51:17) megacoder: Changing it is OK with me. It's currently
"rgb( 255, 100, 100 )" if anybody would like to suggest a new color.
(21:51:21) stickster: Sopwith: Ah, I think I see the problem
(21:51:43) stickster: Sopwith: the "make html-nochunks" should be "make
html" if I'm not mistaken
(21:52:02) Sopwith: Hmm, I thought someone told me to change it to
(21:52:12) stickster: Hm
(21:52:24) quaid: relnotes is nochunks for the fedora-release package
(21:52:33) stickster: Well it probably doesn't matter, if so, then just
change the "cp" command to:
(21:52:47) quaid: again, though, I'd like to see all targets buildable
(21:52:48) stickster: cp -a "${DOCBASE}-${LANG}.html" "${DESTDIR}"
(21:52:57) quaid: maybe with a config file inside the module itself?
(21:53:15) quaid: where you could specify which make targets and which
CVS tags to check out and build
(21:53:20) stickster: Sopwith: Tell you what, let me tinker with it and
build in some more intelligence
(21:53:33) stickster: quaid: Understood, will make some command line
options, etc. for more flexibility
(21:53:43) quaid: the only other hot topic worth discussing is packaging
(21:53:43) Sopwith: stickster: Cool. Bonus points if you can figure out
how to get rid of the whole CVS authentication boondoggle ;-)
(21:53:48) stickster: :-)
(21:54:03) quaid: do stickster or megacoder have any questions/items to
discuss whilst we are formed like Voltron?
(21:54:09) stickster: Ah, packaging, my sweet... my precious
(21:54:52) stickster: megacoder did an awesome job with this DTD, not
only did he do something XMLish which I dig, but also helped me
understand how to read and write my own by reading his example!
(21:55:34) stickster: We are hashing out (on list, to encourage
participation) any small details on other stuff which might need to be
(21:56:04) megacoder: Stickster and I have been dorking around with the
RPM packaging issue. I've developed a DTD and some XSLT stylesheets to
generate most of the overhead files such as RPM .spec files, yelp OMF
files, and the like using tools we already have.
(21:56:10) stickster: Basically each doc author will remove their
separate <articleinfo> and use the rpm-info.xml file to populate both
that XML fragment in the doc, and RPM changelog info
(21:56:23) stickster: Plus all the other goodies megacoder just
(21:56:46) megacoder: Stickster has kindly consented to providing
prototype templates that I can fill in from the XSLT stuff.
(21:57:03) stickster: Oh, and by the way, xmlstarlet is now in Fedora
Extras for anyone who wants it
(21:57:22) stickster: FC-3 and FC-4 branches available in addition to
(21:57:28) megacoder: Cool!
(21:57:42) megacoder: That didn't hurt a bit.
(21:58:06) quaid: FE++
(21:58:07) stickster: :-) If you see any spots where docs or other
hoohah refers to the 'xml' program, let me know... I think I squashed
all of it but you never know
(21:58:19) quaid: what is xmlstarlet?
(21:58:25) stickster: cli XML tool
(21:58:47) megacoder: A command line tool that uses XSLT to perform
arbitrary queries against an XML document.
(21:59:05) quaid: ah, cool
(21:59:21) megacoder: Something like "xmlstarlet /doc/title" writing
"Example Tutorial" to stdout.
(21:59:26) ***nman64 arrives at literally the last minute.
(21:59:29) stickster: Yeah!
(21:59:38) megacoder: That's the wrong syntax, but the right idea.
(22:00:18) quaid: you know .. I parse IRC conversations by the length of
the nick
(22:00:19) Bob-Laptop: WTG nman64 
(22:00:20) stickster: Do a "yum install xmlstarlet" and taste the
(22:00:39) quaid: so I'm always getting confused when stickster and
megacoder are talking at the same time, the nicks look close enough to
me when it's really flying.
(22:00:39) stickster: quaid: I'd keep that private if I were you
(22:00:57) stickster: Good, we'll keep doing that then :-D
(22:01:10) megacoder: Stickster, pay quaid the $20 for the
compliment ;-)
(22:01:12) quaid: so, I read the syntax bit as being a comment on the
usage of the word "Yeah"
(22:01:30) stickster: megacoder: You wish
(22:01:31) quaid: Installed: xmlstarlet.i386 0:1.0.1-2.fc3
(22:01:43) megacoder: quaid; what would be your preference?
(22:01:53) quaid: preference for ....?
(22:01:55) stickster: quaid: fc3? come on, live on the edge...
(22:02:08) megacoder: distinguising megacoder & stickster
(22:02:23) stickster: Easy, I'm the handsome one
(22:02:31) megacoder: Agreed.
(22:02:40) quaid: stickster: when you have to write your expense reports
for work, what OS do you use?
(22:02:46) stickster: Or am I cheap and easy? I keep getting confused
(22:02:59) megacoder: Well, you are what you eat...
(22:03:05) megacoder: Fast, cheap and easy.
(22:03:06) quaid: megacoder: nah, don't worry about it, it's my odd
quirk that is often humor causing
(22:03:28) stickster: quaid: I don't travel much so I rarely have to do
(22:03:31) quaid: stickster: so, yeah, that's my bottom line on my main
machine, and it means I often run way back in FC versions :)
(22:03:53) stickster: Most of my paperwork is on a "company" system
where everything uses that *other* OS
(22:04:00) quaid: in the future ... I'll probably run a RHEL desktop and
do all my FC stuff in Xen, just to be one with the team :)
(22:04:09) stickster: Disco
(22:04:41) stickster: All right... we seem to be winding down, but are
there any questions about the packaging stuff that Tommy and I did?
(22:04:49) stickster: More to come obviously...
(22:04:55) ***quaid has none
(22:05:45) megacoder: Draft-document email away..
(22:07:05) elliss: Speaking of e-mails... 
(22:07:44) elliss: Perhaps advertise the Mirror Tutorial on
fedora-announce ?
(22:08:47) stickster: AOB - There's a lot of SELinux FAQ items in BZ
now... is there anyone helping quaid with those?
(22:09:13) quaid: nope
(22:09:19) quaid: that document is fairly DOA at the moment
(22:09:22) stickster: quaid: You poor bastard ;-)
(22:09:23) quaid: wasn't updated for FC5
(22:09:26) quaid: s/5/4
(22:09:47) stickster: How much has changed where there are major
overhauls needed?
(22:09:53) quaid: I've abandoned it for the greater good, which is lame
of me for not doing a handoff
(22:10:00) quaid: no idea of the scope
(22:10:25) stickster: Maybe you could post to the list and invite some
people to take it up... I'm not qualified but surely we have someone in
the contributors who could jump in
(22:10:31) quaid: I could ask for help on some lists ... but they would
have to be very independent people.
(22:11:04) stickster: I can hold hands and help with editing but I just
don't know enough about the subject to fix the bugs myself
(22:11:07) Bob-Laptop: Mmmm SElinux
(22:12:44) ignacio is now known as ignacio|NotHere
(22:14:37) stickster: Does that mean we're done then?
(22:14:48) quaid: yeah, got a deadline I'm distracted with
(22:14:48) quaid: sorry
(22:15:00) megacoder: caio
(22:15:01) quaid: stickster: can you spawn a thread in f-selinux-l?
(22:15:03) megacoder: ciao?
(22:15:07) quaid: cacao
(22:15:15) Bob-Laptop: L8r
(22:15:17) stickster: I'm not on that list
(22:15:22) quaid: ah, ok
(22:15:39) quaid: here, I'll send a quick one
(22:15:39) stickster: But I could join long enough to do so, and direct
interested recipients to join f-docs-l for followup
(22:15:55) stickster: or... not
(22:16:35) quaid: yeah, just be ready to receive on f-docs-l with me :)
(22:17:24) stickster: k
(22:17:29) stickster: Hmm, playing with xmlstarlet now
(22:17:40) stickster: Did you see the item Tim Waugh had on "meld" in
the new RHM? COOL!
(22:19:42) stickster: quaid: You meant </meeting>
(22:20:05) quaid: </meeting>


Stuart Ellis

stuart elsn org

Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E  9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA

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