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IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 20th Jun 2006



[17:14:35] <quaid> <meeting>
[17:14:42] <quaid> OT chat is now for the record
[17:14:48] <stickster> megacoder: yo
[17:14:50] <stickster> f13: yo
[17:14:50] <quaid> first item, anyone here ...
[17:15:06] <StillBob> BobJensen
[17:15:25] <quaid> have 10 minutes after the meeting each week to i) post the 
log, and ii) quickly summarize the meeting from the log?
[17:15:47] * StillBob points to Eitch 
[17:16:10] <stickster> Volunteers appreciated rather than draftees, but that's 
always a good second choice ;-)
[17:16:14] <quaid> right
[17:17:06] <quaid> okay, heavy gavel of doom
[17:17:10] * stickster recuses self since he has to bail before the hour's up
[17:17:22] <quaid> Eitch: do you think you can give it a go? maybe this week 
to see?
[17:17:29] <quaid> this is a nice job to rotate, perhaps
[17:18:01] <Eitch> :P
[17:18:08] <StillBob> I will take it next week for a try
[17:18:10] <Eitch> ok
[17:18:23] <Eitch> I'll try, for this and last meeting
[17:19:01] <Eitch> (I'm already doing it for fedora-brasil)
[17:19:26] <stickster> I'll be on point week after Bob
[17:19:32] <stickster> Moving on?
[17:20:51] <Eitch> +12
[17:20:54] <Eitch> oops
[17:20:54] <stickster> *zzzzz*
[17:20:54] <quaid> aye
[17:21:07] <Eitch> my 2 key is broken
[17:21:14] * quaid had his $OTHER_MEETING cancelled, thank goodness
[17:21:14] <ghenry> I am here, ben got bowel probs :-(
[17:21:18] <stickster> Strange, so is my z key apparently :-D
[17:21:53] <f13> ...
[17:22:04] <quaid> so
[17:22:04] <quaid> what did we learn last week?
[17:22:07] <quaid> about Plone etc.
[17:22:21] <stickster> Not as much as we had hoped IIRC
[17:22:23] <quaid> are we OK with just growing out our content there, divide 
and conquer>?
[17:22:24] * Eitch wasn't on the show-and-tell
[17:22:32] <stickster> But we can have another session later
[17:22:32] <quaid> or do we need to do some more planning?
[17:22:50] <stickster> Spent almost an hour waiting for connection details
[17:23:05] <stickster> Now that's been ironed out, next time should hopefully 
be more productive
[17:23:47] <Eitch> quaid: I prefer growing the content there and planning 
after that :P
[17:23:56] <Eitch> "plan as you do
[17:24:04] <Eitch> waste some more time, get more results
[17:24:08] <quaid> right, well, we have a bunch of content already that just 
needs to be moved
[17:24:19] <quaid> I just want to solve use cases like ...
[17:24:34] <quaid> "I just translated the Translation QSG and it's ready to be 
published."
[17:25:03] <stickster> quaid: Let's make a list of these questions, wiki them 
and point e.g. Bob and Jon to them -- that makes an agenda for the next 
show'n'tell
[17:25:11] <quaid> ok
[17:25:17] <quaid> everyone ready?
[17:25:28] <quaid> <questions-about-CMS>
[17:25:33] <quaid> <use-cases-too>
[17:25:35] <quaid> "I just translated the Translation QSG and it's ready to be 
published."
[17:26:04] <stickster> "I have a DocBook document I wrote but don't want to do 
the CVS access hoops."
[17:26:24] <quaid> "I have a book in CVS and want to give another person 
permission to edit and publish it."
[17:26:41] <quaid> and
[17:26:43] <quaid> "I have a book in Plone amd I want to give another person 
permission to edit and publish it."
[17:26:49] <StillBob> "Wrote something in plone what can we do with it now?"
[17:26:54] <stickster> "Red Hat just dumped a truckload of docs on me and my 
garage is already full."
[17:26:59] <quaid> heh
[17:27:05] <quaid> keep hoping for that one!
[17:27:09] * quaid is j/k
[17:27:10] * stickster is
[17:27:22] <stickster> and yet, isn't
[17:27:32] <quaid> it's coming, I now have a sliver of visibility into it
[17:27:38] <quaid> FAB++ for the help
[17:27:51] <quaid> what else?
[17:28:10] <stickster> Those are a good start.
[17:28:14] * stickster goes to draw up Wiki page
[17:28:14] <stickster> if that's OK...
[17:28:17] <quaid> "I have a book in Plone that I want to make available for 
translation."
[17:28:20] <quaid> yeah
[17:28:25] <quaid> </use-cases></questions>
[17:29:13] <StillBob> After our show and tell last week Unity began working on 
improving our workflow and just making changes in general
[17:29:50] <StillBob> we hope to get CVS set up next week for testing 
import/export also
[17:29:56] * quaid sends out -last- weeks IRC notes about relates stuff
[17:31:36] <quaid> ok, so, we'll take all this to f-websites-l
[17:31:41] <quaid> anything else on this subject?
[17:32:24] <quaid> ok, here's an agenda for the rest of today, sorry to start 
so late on it :) --
[17:32:31] <quaid> 0. CMS update, movement
[17:32:41] <quaid> 1. quaid updates on i18n.r.c
[17:32:52] <quaid> 2. quaid update on SoC/Wiki/XML
[17:33:02] <quaid> what else?
[17:33:10] <StillBob> Release notes?
[17:33:24] <quaid> 3. Beats and RN for test2
[17:33:27] * stickster notes URL: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PloneIssues
[17:33:44] <quaid> stickster: can you wrap a brief email around that to 
f-websites-l?
[17:34:04] <quaid> ok
[17:34:04] <stickster> quaid: nod
[17:34:06] <quaid> 4. AOB
[17:34:13] <quaid> so, on to i18n.r.c ...
[17:34:54] <quaid> basically, Sopwith has his eye on it now and is engaged 
with all the right people internally ... he knows of external resources and 
all internal have bought into the concept of community invovlement, where and 
how we can ...
[17:35:05] <quaid> one concern is making it take longer by trying to include 
too many new folks
[17:35:25] <quaid> right now, iirc, they are hashing out if the tool is going 
to be rewritten
[17:35:33] <quaid> active players in that discussion are mospina and Sopwith
[17:35:40] <Sopwith> The main problem at this point is that there isn't anyone 
actually owning it. I don't have the bandwidth to do it myself.
[17:35:49] <Sopwith> mospina wrote a CGI to allow translation via a web 
interface.
[17:36:23] <Sopwith> And pgampe says jfearn is supposed to do the work, but 
jfearn says he's not
[17:36:42] <stickster> BobJensen: I am putting you, me, and quaid as the POCs 
for the Plone page answers
[17:36:46] <quaid> jfearn knows his own bandwidth
[17:36:50] <quaid> stickster: thx
[17:36:56] <StillBob> stickster: OK
[17:37:15] <Sopwith> If someone understands what actual pieces need to be 
migrated, it'd be a lot easier for me to hunt down the right people. I just 
don't understand the technical details of i18n well enough to say "OK, so and 
so can do it next week"
[17:37:19] <Eitch> how much bandwidth do we need?
[17:37:36] <Sopwith> "bandwidth" as in free time, sorry
[17:37:38] <StillBob> Eitch: personal bandwidth(time)
[17:37:40] <Eitch> ah ok
[17:37:45] <Eitch> :)
[17:37:55] <quaid> Sopwith: specific design/arch details are really in bgroh's 
head, maybe some in jfearn's
[17:38:02] <Sopwith> OK.
[17:38:35] <quaid> Sopwith: perhaps our Army of Flying Monkeys could work on 
some of the details, if all the knowers could pool what they know and help us 
modularize it a bit?
[17:38:55] <quaid> there are obviously _some_ UID 0 requiring pieces, but 
surely not all
[17:38:59] <Sopwith> yea. right now the main challenge is finding out what 
those pieces are exactly :)
[17:39:09] <Sopwith> I think e-mailing bgroh for a braindump is a good path.
[17:39:28] <quaid> Sopwith: do you feel we have it clear that we can open 
(GPL) the pieces? I think they are effectively opened, just not licensed, 
iirc
[17:40:36] <Sopwith> quaid: With the positive signals I have gotten from 
pgampe and everyone else, I am just going to assume it's OK to openly license 
things
[17:41:22] <quaid> right
[17:41:23] <f13> quaid: can you ping me when you get to stuff for test2 ?
[17:41:33] <quaid> f13: you bet
[17:41:39] <StillBob> f13: oh we will
[17:41:47] <quaid> :D
[17:42:03] <megacoder> Could bgroh send a dump to f-d-l so the masses (mainly 
me) can see it?
[17:42:08] * quaid loves his release engineer^H release configuration manager
[17:42:30] <quaid> dump == arch/design/foo?
[17:42:39] <Sopwith> megacoder: OK, sounds like something to do.
[17:43:15] <megacoder> Good, since I have absolutely no idea what technology 
we are discussing -- only its intent
[17:44:45] <quaid> perl
[17:44:45] <quaid> just so you know
[17:44:52] <quaid> but the rewrite is probably in Java
[17:45:03] * quaid doesn't know the last thing for sure, but wants to make 
megacoder itch
[17:45:09] <quaid> ok, email sent to bgroh
[17:45:23] <quaid> Sopwith: thanks, anything else you know of that we can do?
[17:45:35] <quaid> otherwise ...
[17:45:58] * megacoder wants quaid to scratch the itch, not induce it
[17:46:38] <quaid> roger that
[17:46:47] <quaid> ok, quick on the Wiki and XML, then to relnotes
[17:46:58] <Sopwith> quaid: Nope, sounds good
[17:47:01] <StillBob> Sopwith: if you have a few minutes after our meeting I 
would like to ask about some info related to CVS so Unity can do proper 
testing of some of the idea we have for plone
[17:47:15] <quaid> so
[17:47:21] <quaid> if you haven't read 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinDocBookProject
[17:47:22] <Sopwith> stillbob: OK, I have a meeting in a bit but send me an 
e-mail if I'm not on here
[17:47:24] <quaid> you should :)
[17:47:35] <StillBob> Sopwith: will do
[17:47:53] <quaid> and I've asked mvirkkil to drop some stuff to the list, 
which at least stickster and megacoder need to peek at, but anyone who 
undestands l10n ...
[17:48:11] <quaid> and our toolchain
[17:48:23] <mvirkkil> quaid: I'm listening..
[17:48:25] <megacoder> too many qualifiers...
[17:48:27] <quaid> oh, hi!
[17:48:34] <mvirkkil> quaid: hi :O)
[17:48:36] <quaid> megacoder: ok, uh, forget that, just read
[17:48:50] <megacoder> yassuh, boss man
[17:48:53] <quaid> mvirkkil: I was going to give everyone a high-level summary 
of status
[17:49:09] <mvirkkil> quaid: You want me to do it?
[17:49:22] <quaid> mvirkkil: but since you are here :)
[17:49:22] <quaid> go ahead
[17:49:38] <mvirkkil> I haven't pushed the latest changes to the repo yet, 
but:
[17:50:04] <mvirkkil> Currently outputing practically any wikipage will result 
in a valid docbook article
[17:50:32] <mvirkkil> I've also got it outputing a book, where the wikipage 
contains a list of pages to be included as chapter.
[17:50:45] <mvirkkil> Most of the new funtionality will be accessible as 
macros or actions.
[17:50:59] * stickster starts to get sweaty palms
[17:51:10] <mvirkkil> Stuff like [[IncludeAs('chapter', NameOfPage)]] is where 
I'm going.
[17:51:18] <mvirkkil> that basically works now.
[17:51:36] <mvirkkil> I'm also working on getting a zip, with all images and 
the docbook as output.
[17:52:03] <mvirkkil> This turned out to be a bit tricky, but it's getting 
there..
[17:52:37] <stickster> mvirkkil: Bravo
[17:52:40] <mvirkkil> Basically 99% of what you want to put in a docbook 
should work by the end of next week.
[17:53:06] <mvirkkil> Some odd stuff like <task><step><substep>... stuff isn't 
supported.
[17:53:24] <megacoder> Author! Author!
[17:53:27] <mvirkkil> I've also decided that admonitions will be a macro in 
the future.
[17:53:47] <mvirkkil> megacoder: You want support for the author tag?
[17:54:13] <quaid> mvirkkil: that is what people yell
[17:54:16] <megacoder> Sorry, no, I was venting approval and admiration.
[17:54:18] <quaid> mvirkkil: after "Bravo" in a theater :)
[17:54:22] <mvirkkil> well, including docbook specific metadata is something I 
just discovered a cleanish way to do
[17:54:38] <quaid> attributes?
[17:54:42] <mvirkkil> quaid: Nope. That's a really tricky one.
[17:54:58] <quaid> what do you mean by docbook specific metadata?
[17:55:29] <mvirkkil> complete xml fragments. Stuff like 
<bookinfo><revision>4332.32</revision></bookinfo>
[17:55:41] <quaid> ah, ok
[17:55:52] <mvirkkil> quaid: What I talked about this morning (my time)
[17:56:05] <mvirkkil> or was it the afternoon.. Oh well.
[17:56:15] <quaid> I wonder if we could use XSL to add any attributes we want, 
or if XSL is not "smart" enough
[17:56:28] <stickster> XSL is smart enough, but are we?
[17:56:28] <quaid> mvirkkil: right, gotcha (yes, I understand) :)
[17:56:40] <mvirkkil> The wikidevs are a bit apprehensive regarding embedding 
xml fragments in wikisyntax.
[17:56:53] <quaid> stickster: XSL can e.g. take the <title> contents and make 
them into an id="sn-Just-Like-Title" ?
[17:57:03] <stickster> Yup
[17:57:07] <quaid> ok, then good
[17:57:18] <megacoder> And it also could make XML->Moin clumsy if we must 
generate some macros and some fragments.
[17:57:22] <quaid> we can work out attributes with XSL rather than from the 
Wiki
[17:57:36] <quaid> ok, so, before we chat too much ... :)
[17:57:42] <quaid> let's move the discussion to f-docs-l
[17:57:54] <stickster> megacoder: Keeping in mind Moin will ultimately go away 
AIUI
[17:57:55] <quaid> mvirkkil: if you are done with pure status update?
[17:58:05] <quaid> stickster: what Wiki will replace it?
[17:58:10] <mvirkkil> megacoder: xml->moin will always be clumsy :/
[17:58:23] * quaid doesn't believe there will be no-Wiki anytime that soon
[17:58:29] <quaid> regardless of how nice Plone is :)
[17:58:33] <stickster> Oh wait, I forgot, Plone will wrap around it
[17:58:51] Quit Rasther has left this server ("Fui embora").
[17:59:07] <stickster> Hm, so once a doc is promoted we have to maintain full 
backward compat? Ugh.
[17:59:15] Quit tcf has left this server ("Leaving").
[17:59:50] <megacoder> one-to-one, on-to, and transitive properties all, 
please
[18:00:16] * stickster mimes sticking finger in throat
[18:00:41] * megacoder would'a done that for you...
[18:00:58] * stickster hastily scribbles note to self: stick to working on 
canon that sits on high shelf
[18:01:12] <stickster> :-D
[18:01:29] * megacoder ignores the canonical response
[18:01:43] <quaid> no
[18:01:50] <quaid> if a doc moves to XML
[18:01:50] <quaid> it stays
[18:01:56] <quaid> to XHTML
[18:01:58] <quaid> it stays
[18:02:09] <quaid> if it is Wiki-sourced, then XML and XHTML are output 
formats only
[18:02:22] <quaid> anyway
[18:02:22] <quaid> relnotes
[18:02:22] <quaid> f13: now is the time
[18:02:26] <quaid> (sorry it's so late, but let's rock it)
[18:02:35] * stickster unfortunately bails, high-fives f13 on way out
[18:02:39] <quaid> StillBob: you too, go ahead
[18:02:46] <quaid> stickster: ciao
[18:02:48] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk.
[18:03:39] <StillBob> OK, one thing we talked about in FC5 was the seperation 
of the release notes from fedora-release package, is there any more input ont 
his idea?
[18:04:06] <StillBob> can we do it? should we drop the idea?
[18:04:23] <mspevack> stickster_afk: I can take notes tonight, you don't need 
to worry about it :-)
[18:04:34] <f13> I'm here.
[18:04:53] <f13> StillBob: I think its still doable.
[18:05:12] <f13> the RHEL rel-eng has expressed interist in having this done 
as well, so if we pave the way they'll be happy
[18:05:13] <StillBob> also what can we do to get our beat writers moving 
getting content in to out beats that is FC6 relevent
[18:05:31] <StillBob> s/out/our
[18:05:33] Join megacoder_ has joined this channel 
(n=reynolds 209 192 56 186).
[18:05:40] Nick dylan_thomas is now known as dom_genaro.
[18:06:07] <f13> StillBob: I would suppose having them look at what was 
written for FC5, see whats different so far in FC6 and ping maintainers of 
said packages / groups and see what direction is planned
[18:06:32] <f13> StillBob: there really isn't an over all 'This is what we're 
going to do for FC6', a lot of it is up to individual maintainers or groups
[18:06:36] <StillBob> f13: we have the content there from FC5 so they can see 
it
[18:07:24] <f13> if we're going to do the split of release-notes and 
fedora-release we need to do it pre-test2
[18:07:29] <f13> so groundwork should start soon
[18:08:37] <StillBob> f13: OK let me know what I need to do, I will get emails 
out to see what beat writers are available for FC6 so we can railroad new 
writers as needed
[18:08:38] <Eitch> :)
[18:09:45] Quit dom_genaro has left this server (""cd ~"").
[18:09:47] <StillBob> quaid: do you have any experienced input here?
[18:10:30] <f13> StillBob: basically a spec would have to be created for the 
release-notes part. since release-notes is already its own cvs tree, making 
it into an rpm isn't going to be that hard. Once thats created, I can strip 
the release notes parts out of the fedora-release package.
[18:10:44] * quaid reads up
[18:11:06] <f13> we'll have to figure out some generic 'does release-notes 
require fedora-release' and vice/versa.
[18:11:25] <f13> but the real goal is to be able to spin new release-notes 
packages w/out touching fedora-release type stuff and vice/versa
[18:11:47] <quaid> yep
[18:11:49] <quaid> +1
[18:11:50] <StillBob> f13: naming the package for the notes was an issue, I 
know there are guidelines for that, what do you suggest?
[18:12:31] <Eitch> fedora-release-notes?
[18:12:31] <f13> fedora-release-notes ?
[18:12:38] <quaid> f13: here's my thing, and it's a doozy ...
[18:12:43] * quaid takes a breath
[18:12:44] * f13 waits for it to land.
[18:12:46] <StillBob> I understand fedora-release-notes was suggested as not 
in the guidlines
[18:12:49] <quaid> fc5 relnotes were superb
[18:13:01] <quaid> but they rode too much on the shoulders of a small group, 
although it did grow
[18:13:02] <Eitch> StillBob: why?
[18:13:17] <quaid> we are fixing the tooling issues that made it hard on us, 
that's not a "broad community concern"
[18:13:25] <quaid> but populating Docs/Beats _is_ a broad community concern
[18:13:25] <quaid> and
[18:13:39] <quaid> we are going to expand Beats to provide content for _all_ 
works, with relnotes being just one output
[18:14:00] <quaid> so participation from _every_single_project_ is crucial to 
both another superb relnotes and even better, easier, more elegant content
[18:14:03] <quaid> remember ...
[18:14:06] <StillBob> Eitch: I do not know the details, just going from memory 
back more than 2 days is a bit much for me
[18:14:11] <quaid> we have made it really easy to document as you go ..
[18:14:23] <quaid> CVS commit logs, relnotes fp o, bugzilla, wiki, xml, now 
Plone
[18:14:44] <quaid> f13: so, last time Tim Burke "motivated" enough people to 
fill the gaps
[18:14:53] <quaid> f13: but we need to make the motivation bigger, the love 
greater
[18:15:06] <quaid> i.e., we can't rely upon the Everseeing Eye of Mether
[18:15:12] * Eitch looking at the NamingGuidelines
[18:15:13] <f13> quaid: I had completely forgotten about the tag to use when 
committing to CVS something that was relnote worthy. What was that again?
[18:15:19] <quaid> *docs*
[18:15:31] <f13> anywhere in the commit log?
[18:15:33] <quaid> cvs ci "an entire novel about this milestone *docs*" foo.c
[18:15:36] <quaid> yep
[18:15:44] <f13> so that works sometimes.
[18:15:46] <quaid> f13: even better, the code is in the syncmail script
[18:15:53] <f13> but its hard when we're just doing 'update to latest 
upstream' type bumps
[18:15:54] <quaid> so that we can extend it to cover other keywords for other 
reasons
[18:16:03] <quaid> sure, it's not forever
[18:16:06] <quaid> but ....
[18:16:10] <quaid> it's a thought process
[18:16:21] <quaid> remember to pause to document, it won't take long and is 
easy
[18:16:23] <quaid> but don't forget
[18:16:32] <quaid> do we need to have RH make up posters and distribute them?
[18:16:42] <quaid> custom wallpaper from dfong "Don't Forget to Document"
[18:16:56] <quaid> I mean ... it's never been easier :)
[18:17:01] Join stickster__ has joined this channel 
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[18:17:03] * quaid lets go of his breath
[18:17:03] <Eitch> StillBob: I'm not seeing anything that blocks this name, do 
you remember who said this?
[18:17:05] Quit stickster_afk has left this server ("Ack! Thppptt...").
[18:17:30] <f13> quaid: also, we could ask each big group to spend a moment 
with documentation of what the group is up to.
[18:17:34] <quaid> anyway, we'll probably just have to do the traditional 
nagmail
[18:17:44] <StillBob> Eitch: if f13 says it is OK, then it is on his 
shoulders. it needs a @redhat.com owner IIRC
[18:17:48] <f13> Desktop Team, Xen Team, Kernel Team, big items like that.
[18:17:55] <quaid> yeah
[18:18:12] <quaid> mugshot in Extras yet?
[18:18:25] <StillBob> quaid: will you be available later to help with a 
nagmail?
[18:18:26] <f13> don't think so
[18:18:33] <Eitch> StillBob: sure. Let's ask f13 :)
[18:18:37] <quaid> StillBob: yes
[18:18:52] <StillBob> quaid: about 9 your time?
[18:18:58] <quaid> StillBob: and perhaps this time, we do something that is a 
short and long term reminder that goes to all the project lists we can dig up
[18:19:02] Quit megacoder has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection 
timed out)).
[18:19:10] <StillBob> quaid: +1
[18:19:43] <quaid> StillBob: ok, 9-ish
[18:19:53] <quaid> so, back to the chat ...
[18:19:55] <StillBob> K
[18:20:02] <quaid> f13: what else did you have going on for relnotes?
[18:20:28] Quit stickster__ has left this server (Client Quit).
[18:20:28] <StillBob> f13: what else do you need from us on this?
[18:20:28] Join stickster__ has joined this channel 
(n=pfrields fedora/stickster).
[18:20:44] <f13> well, we really should have something in place for Test2. THe 
placeholder was ~ok~ but it looks pretty bad in firefox.
[18:21:05] <StillBob> f13: w2e will have content for T2
[18:21:11] <f13> ok.
[18:21:22] <f13> do we ahve a specific docs deadline for the Test2 freeze?
[18:21:35] <StillBob> 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule?highlight=%28schedule%29
[18:22:19] <f13> so that looks like it hasnt' been adjusted for the week slip 
we did.
[18:22:41] <StillBob> it is nut on for the current schedule
[18:22:52] <f13> final iso spin for Test2 isn't on teh 12th
[18:22:56] <StillBob> we run a week early for translation
[18:23:02] <f13> the 12th is the day of the freeze. Iso spin happens a few 
days later.
[18:23:05] Quit megacoder_ has left this server (Connection timed out).
[18:23:41] <f13> but other than that I think you're right, they are correct
[18:23:44] <StillBob> right but we need our people to be accountable for the 
freeze
[18:24:07] <f13> so then I should expect a shiney fedora-release-notes package 
by EOB July 11th ?
[18:24:29] <StillBob> if we tell them that is when the ISO is spun they have 
no "well we can slip it in room"
[18:24:41] <StillBob> we need to avoid that
[18:24:43] <quaid> f13: that's why we schedule like that, yep, no slip room
[18:25:07] <f13> good point
[18:25:08] <StillBob> f13: I would say yes
[18:25:17] <quaid> f13: feel free to bring up the subject of "update your 
Beats" over lunch with people, m'kay?
[18:25:30] <StillBob> f13: as we get closer I will be in contact with you 
about what we need
[18:25:44] <quaid> who is making the new package?
[18:25:44] <f13> quaid: sure.
[18:26:12] * quaid looks at f13 and StillBob 
[18:26:13] <f13> quaid: the package making can happen entirely outside, spec 
and all. I could be just the internal maintainer who takes new tarballs and 
specfiles from 'upstream'.
[18:26:14] <StillBob> well being a core package it needs a @redhat owner?
[18:26:42] <f13> StillBob: only for the sake of building it into the 
collection.
[18:26:49] <StillBob> OK
[18:26:54] <f13> I'd like to treat you as the upstream.
[18:26:56] <quaid> should it live in /cvs/docs then?
[18:26:57] <f13> you could make tarball releases of the release-notes content.
[18:27:03] <f13> quaid: or 108
[18:27:03] <StillBob> I want to learn, and I will do the work with a packaging 
mentor
[18:27:30] <quaid> StillBob: maybe stickster__ if you ask him nicely, since he 
groks the whole-er picture
[18:27:40] <StillBob> quaid: good idea
[18:27:56] <quaid> + someone who is an actual Extras maintainer, but Paul 
knows when to call in Da Gunz
[18:27:56] <f13> this would be a great time to revisit some of the mess that 
is generating the tarball
[18:27:57] <StillBob> quaid: I will send him an off list request
[18:28:18] <f13> I tried to do it, but got some failures when doing make 
html-nochunks, even w/ docs-common checked out.
[18:28:23] <quaid> hrm?
[18:28:42] <quaid> how about 'make html-nochunks-en_US'
[18:29:03] <quaid> there may be bogus .po in there at any time
[18:29:13] <quaid> only what is tagged for the release -should- be buildable
[18:29:27] * StillBob throws .po
[18:29:57] <quaid> f13: note that we tag docs-common every time we tag a 
module (by practice), so you can go back to e.g. fc5 test2 and be able to 
build those notes (ideally) from that tag
[18:30:18] <f13> k
[18:30:41] <f13> how about following cvs/dist/ layout and actually have FC-4 
FC-5, devel/ branches in the CVS?
[18:31:08] * Eitch knows how to package (learned from Extras)
[18:31:10] <f13> so that when we wnat to spin an update for FC-5 the content 
in FC-5 is what was there at release/branch time, and can easily be updated 
w/out sifting through current development work.
[18:31:19] <Eitch> so I can help with packaging
[18:32:45] <quaid> f13: I don't know enough right now to answer that, but I 
suggest you propose that to f-docs-l, let Paul and Tommy chew on it.
[18:33:11] Nick stickster__ is now known as stickster_afk.
[18:33:13] <f13> oh boy, YetAnotherList (;
[18:33:21] <StillBob> Yeah
[18:33:55] <StillBob> Ok anything else?
[18:33:58] <f13> I'll try to catch Paul when he's available.
[18:34:05] <StillBob> we are runnong over our normal time here
[18:34:11] <f13> StillBob: lets meet sometime next week to touch base on this.
[18:34:37] <StillBob> f13: is Tuesday after lunch OK?
[18:35:26] <StillBob> f13: that way anything we need from docs in general can 
be covered in the FDSCo meeting that afternoon
[18:35:52] <f13> StillBob: I _think_ so, but I suck at calendering things. I'm 
trying to get a Treo for my use again.
[18:36:15] <f13> given that today is tuesday and I didn't have any meetings 
today I think we're safe.
[18:36:15] <StillBob> f13: I will just send you a ping
[18:36:28] <quaid> StillBob: you da calendar man, give him a ping :)
[18:36:28] <quaid> heh
[18:36:28] <f13> k
[18:36:39] * quaid has his Franklin Covey act together
[18:36:39] <quaid> papuh all the way
[18:36:41] <stickster_afk> quaid: I'll take the packaging
[18:36:41] <quaid> ok, we're done
[18:36:43] <StillBob> so are we good for this week?
[18:36:50] <quaid> unless there is anything else?
[18:36:57] <quaid> stickster_afk: you and StillBob are da 1s
[18:37:04] * quaid is stuck on d today
[18:37:11] <quaid> </meeting>

-- 
[]'s
Eitch

http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/
"Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds


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