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IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 7 March 2006

(21:09:27) quaid: <meeting>
(21:09:39) MicroBob: quaid, sure can
(21:09:51) quaid: we're getting ready for the relnotes final for the
ISO, but we can also chat about the state of the FDP world.
(21:09:57) Eitch: meeting? :>
(21:10:35) quaid: Eitch: yes, right now is the weekly Fedora
Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) meeting :)
(21:11:16) Eitch: ah ok, i'll watch too :)
(21:12:38) MicroBob: quaid, downloading deps now, should be done in a
(21:14:03) stickster [n=pfrields ip68-110-253-201 dc dc cox net] entered
the room.
(21:14:05) quaid: thanks
(21:14:11) stickster: yo-ho-ho
(21:14:14) quaid: just in time for us to be running a little later :)
(21:14:20) stickster: superfantastic!
(21:14:21) Eitch: how about discussing about Andrew Martynov's question
on the f-d-list?
(21:14:24) Eitch: :)
(21:14:26) Eitch: hi stickster 
(21:14:49) stickster: hi Eitch 
(21:15:17) MicroBob: qauid, done
(21:15:22) MicroBob: ooops
(21:15:28) quaid: thx
(21:15:32) stickster: Have we started?
(21:15:52) quaid: not really
(21:15:56) quaid: just posted the schedule
(21:16:01) quaid:
(21:16:21) ***quaid is filing a help request trying to solve the *docs*
chain through CVS, too
(21:17:07) quaid: MicroBob: can you also install gnome-doc-utils
(21:17:15) quaid: that's where xml2po is from, right/
(21:17:21) stickster: correct
(21:18:13) MicroBob: quaid, i am on it
(21:18:45) MicroBob: done
(21:19:31) quaid: ok
(21:19:46) quaid: yeah, we do have an unresolved about partial
translations of relnotes
(21:20:35) stickster: I'm not a big fan of half-finished work but OTOH I
don't want i18n community members to feel slighted
(21:21:15) stickster: I am delighted we have what appear to be at least
three complete translations
(21:21:23) Eitch: In my opition, half-finished translations in the final
version isn't good
(21:21:28) elliss: Agree.
(21:21:47) Eitch: s/opition/opinion
(21:21:47) stickster: Since English is lingua franca, we have that to
fall back on, at lesat
(21:23:10) quaid: all right, I see the trend here
(21:23:10) MicroBob: we need to expand the translation team so we have
(21:23:13) quaid: yes
(21:23:16) elliss: The Website can be updated with completed
translations, so it wouldn't really be a final "no"
(21:23:21) quaid: we need to be hooked with the actual trans project
(21:23:21) stickster: that's right
(21:24:01) megacoder: Won't a partially-translated doc just be a mixture
of whatever and English?
(21:24:39) stickster: megacoder: I think the worry would be a partially
*updated* translation
(21:24:47) MicroBob: I have mixed feelings about partial translations
(21:24:59) stickster: I think that's possible, isn't it?
(21:25:11) megacoder: MicroBob, then you are "partially" for partial
(21:25:26) stickster: That's, like, a 1/4 vote :-)
(21:26:04) MicroBob: megacoder, in general I say no
(21:26:16) Eitch: lol
(21:26:19) MicroBob: it sets a bad standard
(21:26:33) stickster: Bob's new E-i-C hat is firmly "on"
(21:27:15) megacoder: MicroBob, I disagree. All software ships with bugs
and partial functionality. 
(21:27:18) MicroBob: if we allow partial works now we will need to in
the future
(21:28:06) MicroBob: tommy we are not talking about bugs, we are talking
about failure to complete a task
(21:28:17) stickster: Yes, but the countless previous discussions have
always landed on the problem that doc errors are more pernicious
(21:28:27) MicroBob: it would be like shipping an installer that never
(21:28:29) megacoder: MicroBob, I'd prefer that everything was perfect,
but FDP has zero control and/or influince the release date.
(21:28:58) stickster: We have three (hopefully) final and complete
translations... we should ship those and make any other updates
available on the web site per normal, IMHO
(21:29:22) MicroBob: stickster +1
(21:29:28) Eitch: stickster +1
(21:29:41) stickster: The problem is not that we have part English and
part Elbonian, it's that we might have part English (up-to-date), part
Elbonian (up-to-date), and part Elbonian (out of date).
(21:29:52) quaid: that's a good point
(21:29:56) quaid: I don't know if that is the situation or not
(21:30:08) megacoder: MicroBob, my point is that there *are* reliable
docs: the en/en_US versions. Even if the native docs have lesser
confidence, I believe it's important that the I18N crowd see whatever
fruition they have committed.
(21:30:11) stickster: me neither... it would probably take a threshing
of CVS to figure it out
(21:30:51) MicroBob: as E-i-C for future releases I would saw we run
what is complete
(21:30:52) elliss: The aim ought to be to direct people to the online
versions if possible - what is on the ISO is frozen, for goor and ill.
(21:31:11) MicroBob: s/saw/say
(21:31:40) MicroBob: elliss i agree
(21:32:02) quaid: ironically, that argument supports both positions
(21:32:06) MicroBob: we can not undo what is in the iso
(21:32:27) elliss: That's my point
(21:32:32) megacoder: MicroBob, then we just disagree. NP. It's your
(21:33:29) megacoder: MicroBob, we have to balance the criticism of "no
docs" .vs. "could be stale" docs .vs. "I don't speak English at all".
(21:33:30) MicroBob: can we put a big note on a partial translation that
points to the web?
(21:33:54) elliss: Still a bit unprofessional...
(21:34:06) quaid: MicroBob: it's there anyway, at the very top
(21:34:08) megacoder: MicroBob, just build those partials with the
default DRAFT=yes switch and let'em roll.
(21:34:33) quaid: our CSS doesn't get used, iirc
(21:34:40) quaid: it's all what's in fedora-release
(21:34:48) MicroBob: more or less so then docs that have 2 of 31 parts
(21:34:49) stickster: right, it's all under one umbrella
(21:35:29) MicroBob: could we draw a line in the sand sawing 50% or
(21:35:55) MicroBob: 50% gets in, less does not?
(21:36:24) megacoder: MicroBob, I'd think that counter-productive. It's
either trustworthy to be used/included, or it's just so much bit-fodder.
(21:36:32) MicroBob: thumb typing is not my strong point
(21:37:05) Eitch: damn, i have to go home
(21:37:08) Eitch: bbl
(21:37:20) Eitch left the room (quit: "mv Eitch /home").
(21:37:57) ***quaid notices a commit from Andrew
(21:37:59) quaid: says more to be done
(21:38:01) stickster: MicroBob, *: I think the ja_JP is done except for
some errant newlines
(21:38:13) stickster: I removed the five or six in questions and the doc
is building fine right now
(21:38:18) stickster: That's four translations :-)
(21:38:24) EvilBob: megacoder: I do see your point in not wanting to
upset the translation team
(21:39:01) quaid: stickster: can you commit your fixes?
(21:39:03) EvilBob: But I think we also have a right to expect
completion of the task
(21:39:10) megacoder: EvilBob, thanks. 
(21:39:13) stickster: quaid: yes, in just a moment
(21:39:22) quaid: cool
(21:39:47) EvilBob: megacoder: my opinions are not carved in stone, I
have went both ways over the last couple days
(21:39:48) stickster: quaid: I only need to commit the po/ja_JP.po file,
(21:40:02) stickster: Ha! validates too!
(21:40:05) quaid: I guess so, yeah
(21:40:19) quaid: hmm, one risk about pushing the translations like this
is the introduction of inaccuracies
(21:40:21) EvilBob: megacoder: and I do value your opinion
(21:40:22) quaid: there is no time for QA
(21:40:38) stickster: I know Tetsuo worked on this over the week
(21:40:48) EvilBob: megacoder: it has been you that has been pushing me
back and forth over the fence
(21:41:05) stickster: quaid: his last commit at 1748 UTC says "ja_JP
translation is added (on time?)"
(21:41:08) megacoder: From a software viewpoint, an ISO release is a
consistent CVS snapshot with not-too-many brokens. But always some. I'd
prefer that basic docs like the relnotes were kosher, but "Darn it, I
submitted before the deadline! And where is it?"
(21:41:41) stickster: quaid: Let's make sure EvilBob is cool with it
(21:41:42) stickster: EvilBob: Do you have a problem with us sending
ja_JP to press as is?
(21:41:55) ***megacoder maybe feels guilty about the
up-to-the-last-minute toolchain issues ;-)
(21:41:56) EvilBob: stickster: if it builds push it
(21:42:20) stickster: EvilBob, quaid: committed, update and build away!
(21:42:38) ***quaid is doing just that
(21:42:43) megacoder: Yeah man! That's what I'm talkin about.
(21:42:53) EvilBob: we push every thing we have at this point that is
complete, even if we might have been lied to or has not been Qa'ed
(21:43:08) EvilBob: that is what I am thinking
(21:43:17) megacoder: Better bad breath than no breath at all.
(21:43:33) EvilBob: late and complete is in IMO
(21:43:49) megacoder: imo?
(21:43:50) EvilBob: right up until they say "we need it now"
(21:43:58) stickster: I think the main difference is Tetsuo was clear
that he's finished; Andrew was clear about the exact opposite
(21:44:23) EvilBob: stickster: I agree, but to what point was he
(21:44:57) stickster: EvilBob: No idea, but it was a pretty small commit
(21:45:20) EvilBob: stickster: also McGiwer was in chapter 3 of 31, this
should not be acceptable IMO
(21:45:44) EvilBob: an honest effort is just that and should be included
(21:46:10) EvilBob: having life get in the way so you did not get time
is a big "I'm sorry"
(21:46:49) megacoder: The ru stuff validates...
(21:47:08) EvilBob: megacoder: then push it
(21:47:08) megacoder: The ru stuff generates HTML.
(21:47:16) stickster: EvilBob: Wait
(21:47:23) stickster: EvilBob: Now you're saying that you'll take
whatever's done?
(21:47:35) EvilBob: we get everything we can in this time
(21:47:40) stickster: OK
(21:47:46) quaid: and set the standard for next time/
(21:47:48) quaid: ?
(21:47:58) quaid: s/set/rebase/
(21:48:14) stickster: Wow, OK
(21:48:15) EvilBob: we communicate the deadlines better for next time
with a standard of completion of what will be accepted
(21:48:18) stickster: I guess I'm not in favor, but I ain't driving
either, so have at it
(21:48:40) elliss: What he said
(21:48:59) EvilBob: we can use this time's partials as an example of
what we would not like to do
(21:49:44) megacoder: The ru stuff is a new language; there is no stale
RU stuff to worry about. Locales from earlier RN's I'd take a different
line on .
(21:49:53) EvilBob: You guys are the FDSCo, I am just adding my 2bits
(21:49:59) quaid: hee hee haa!
(21:50:03) quaid: how about this question ...
(21:50:15) megacoder: The ru stuff starts off in ru and then lapses into
un-translated English.
(21:50:18) quaid: do we _know_ that we aren't including older content
from the previous -xy translation?
(21:50:30) stickster: No
(21:50:31) quaid: ok, there that helps
(21:50:33) EvilBob: quaid: great answer
(21:50:35) stickster: Because of fuzziness
(21:50:37) EvilBob: errr
(21:50:40) EvilBob: question
(21:50:42) EvilBob: LOL
(21:50:45) quaid: right
(21:50:56) quaid: if we don't know, we are risking sending old content
that may have bugs in it
(21:51:08) quaid: it's one thing if the content is the same, just
partially translated.
(21:51:12) EvilBob: quaid: that is an issue I think
(21:51:18) stickster: If we ship these ru notes, we have to be able to
live with that.
(21:51:24) quaid: but another if there is the three-way charlie foxtrot
stickster surmises
(21:51:35) EvilBob: quaid: and honestly one I had not thought of, can we
diff the files to see?
(21:51:55) stickster: That's why, given that Andrew clearly states that
he is NOT done, I think it's silly to ship these, especially when we can
publish them to the web between now and actual release date
(21:51:58) EvilBob: again I am the new guy
(21:52:04) EvilBob: so I am not sure
(21:52:18) megacoder: Guys, I just lost the thread of the last few
(21:52:27) stickster: Points:
(21:52:34) EvilBob: andrew is the ru translator?
(21:52:39) stickster: EvilBob: correct
(21:52:41) EvilBob: ok
(21:52:50) stickster: 1. "ru" is clearly not done, translator says so
(21:53:03) ***megacoder stipulates #1
(21:53:10) stickster: 2. docs may have factual errors floating around
from previous FC5t[1-3] versions
(21:53:34) stickster: 3. all finished relnotes have canonical URL at top
directing to web for newest releases
(21:53:39) stickster: 4. Andrew may finish before 15 March
(21:53:57) stickster: That just screams "don't do it, just publish the
web version" to me
(21:54:26) EvilBob: megacoder: see stickster is pulling me back over the
(21:54:26) elliss: 5. We can't vet or edit the Russian text, because we
can't read it
(21:54:37) mspevack is now known as mspevack_out
(21:54:42) mutk [n=mutk pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mutk] entered the
(21:54:43) stickster: elliss: exactly
(21:55:02) EvilBob: it could say "Buy Micro$oft Stock"
(21:55:04) stickster: And let's keep in mind Andrew emailed the list
knowing he can't finish it until tomorrow
(21:55:30) quaid: the whole point of the Web-published and big URL was
to avoid having to stress about content that couldn't make it for the
(21:55:38) stickster: that was the point
(21:55:44) EvilBob: quaid: right
(21:55:50) quaid: there are already things added to the Wiki that could
have been in the relnotes, but aren't, and we say that's OK because of
the Web-publish
(21:56:01) EvilBob: quaid: 1
(21:56:03) quaid: we can take the attitude that the ISO is just a
snapshot in time
(21:56:14) stickster: The whole project is like that when you think
about it
(21:56:28) quaid: also, when Anaconda supports pulling down the latest
package, including fedora-release, we'll be able to update such things
from installation point.
(21:56:35) stickster: But with that in mind, it might be proper to do a
"ru" snapshot
(21:56:40) quaid: stickster: right, and we can be the vanguards of that
(21:56:43) stickster: Bob, make the call
(21:56:48) quaid: ha!
(21:56:57) stickster: I'm just arguing my point, I'll stick by what Bob
(21:56:58) megacoder: OK. The translator says it's not finished. I
believe him. I don't
(21:56:58) megacoder: know what he's left as TODO's; it may not be
front-to-mark clean. I
(21:56:58) megacoder: withdraw my mindreading attempt (after all, this
isn't a hanging
(21:56:58) megacoder: chad). Don't send the "ru".
(21:56:58) EvilBob: I am leaning to saying "incomplete" is out
(21:56:59) quaid: I think we may have compromised alreay
(21:57:14) quaid: see?
(21:57:15) quaid: :)
(21:57:27) stickster: Now we've all switched sides :-D
(21:57:31) stickster: Jk
(21:57:40) quaid: yeah, how dare we!
(21:57:45) quaid: must stay the course and stuff
(21:57:53) stickster: so final call is?
(21:57:53) EvilBob: if it was complete and came in just before we needed
to hand it upsteam then it is in
(21:58:03) megacoder: Well, "ru" builds. Then ship it.
(21:58:33) EvilBob: but the situation is that the translation is
(21:59:09) EvilBob: I am back to complete is in, incomplete is out
(21:59:12) stickster: Bob, call it, dude
(21:59:44) megacoder: EvilBob, just say "no".
(21:59:46) EvilBob: I may hate myself for it tomorrow but the call needs
to be made
(22:00:00) EvilBob: complete is in, incomplete is out
(22:00:09) ***megacoder seconds.
(22:00:10) EvilBob: that is my vote
(22:00:44) stickster: OK, that still means we have a ***GREAT***
relnotes package, including "it", "pt_BR", "ja_JP", and "zh_CN"
(22:00:49) megacoder: quaid, what makes you say that we may be
compromised already?
(22:01:01) quaid: oops
(22:01:06) stickster: quaid: Yeah, how do your morals come into this at
all? :-D
(22:01:10) EvilBob: LOL
(22:01:25) ***quaid is a neologist, apparently
(22:01:27) stickster: I kid, I kid
(22:01:36) quaid: may have reached compromise already, britches
(22:01:43) quaid: pants and shortpants and britches
(22:02:00) stickster: I thought you mistyped and called us bitches
(22:02:06) ***megacoder awaits quaid to stop dithering.
(22:02:11) EvilBob: sorry it was not clear to me that Andrew = the RU
(22:02:50) EvilBob: quaid: when do we need to turn in the notes for
(22:03:04) EvilBob: quaid: do we have an exact deadline for that?
(22:03:11) stickster: I think the idea is that Jeremy Katz will pull
them after 2359 UTC, right?
(22:03:14) quaid: EvilBob: I said 23:59 UTC we should be ready
(22:03:17) quaid: yeah
(22:03:21) EvilBob: ok
(22:03:50) stickster: EvilBob: In case you didn't know, Jeremy is in
charge of fedora-release... he takes a copy of the relnotes, and
includes them in that RPM
(22:04:03) EvilBob: stickster: OK
(22:04:12) stickster: I'm going to drop him an email JIC
(22:04:32) stickster: Does that sound reasonable? Incl. list of
translations, etc.
(22:04:58) MrTom [n=mrtom 148 18 97-84 rev gaoland net] entered the
(22:05:06) EvilBob: stickster: yes, please CC our list or at the very
least me
(22:05:14) stickster: yuppers
(22:05:35) MrTom: hello what is the deadline to give the translated
release notes?
(22:05:44) EvilBob: MrTom: Now
(22:06:10) EvilBob: MrTom: we have to have them upstream in the next two
(22:06:21) MrTom: ok i d'ont think we will be ready then :s
(22:06:35) MrTom: splinux, ping
(22:06:41) EvilBob: MrTom: ok how far along are you?
(22:06:42) splinux: MrTom, yes
(22:07:17) EvilBob: MrTom: just starting? 50%, 70%, needs proofing?
(22:07:18) MrTom: EvilBob, spinux is translating and i would have
re-read his work
(22:07:26) EvilBob: MrTom: OK
(22:07:35) splinux: EvilBob, 9 march? hum.... 
(22:09:18) EvilBob: splinux: You may be looking at the wrong schedule
(22:10:01) EvilBob: splinux:
(22:10:15) ghenry left the room (quit: "oops").
(22:10:28) EvilBob: splinux: 06 Mar. Relnotes due from trans
(22:10:57) splinux: EvilBob, arf, i've canceled my translation....
(22:11:07) stickster: splinux: You can still do a translation for the
(22:11:13) EvilBob: splinux: we can still get your work in to the web
release notes
(22:11:18) stickster: :-)
(22:11:35) quaid: oh, please, yes
(22:11:44) quaid: let us not get stopped by the ISO as the end of all
(22:11:46) MrTom: splinux, let's do it then... when do we have to give
it to you for the web version?
(22:12:13) quaid: for the ISO-matching content that is in CVS right now
(22:12:21) quaid: anytime it is ready, we can post it with the other
ISO-matching content
(22:12:41) EvilBob: the web version we have until release day and after
(22:12:44) quaid: we'll also be updating the content with new content
from the wiki, which is a different snapshot
(22:12:57) quaid: right, there are sort of two web versions published
(22:13:12) quaid: 1. we publish original and translations of what went
into the ISO
(22:13:32) quaid: 2. we take another snapshot of the Wiki and post that,
with any translations that can catch up
(22:13:55) splinux: EvilBob, web release-notes?
(22:14:06) splinux: EvilBob, where can i find it ?
(22:14:42) EvilBob: splinux:
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ for example
(22:15:04) EvilBob: splinux: you will see that in the past we have not
had translations of the updates
(22:15:15) EvilBob: splinux: we would very much like to change that
(22:15:54) stickster: splinux: Which translation are you working on?
(22:16:41) splinux: stickster,
(22:17:10) stickster: splinux: Sorry, I meant which LANG
(22:17:24) splinux: stickster, french
(22:17:34) stickster: splinux: Thanks... noting for katzj
(22:17:46) ***quaid is about to take off to jet home
(22:18:04) EvilBob: quaid: soryr to take over the meeting
(22:18:07) quaid: sounds like stickster has the hand-off for katz
(22:18:12) quaid: EvilBob: it was the hot topic!
(22:18:35) EvilBob: quaid: as long as megacoder will still talk to me it
is all good
(22:18:37) EvilBob: LOL
(22:18:45) splinux: hum... what can i do for the moment? translate web
(22:18:48) quaid: stickster: we can put a new tag on it ... like -F the
(22:18:54) quaid: and let that be what jeremy gets
(22:19:04) megacoder: EvilBob, I have not yet begun to talk to you...
(22:19:39) stickster: quaid: I need to remove the ja_JP and it modules
that are erroneously still in CVS
(22:19:44) stickster: megacoder: That should be OK, right?
(22:19:53) stickster: (i.e. just the directories, which have old XML in
them apparently)
(22:20:04) quaid: splinux: if you finish translating what is in CVS
(HEAD) right now, we will make sure it gets published on the Web.
(22:20:15) stickster: I did a manual "rm -rf it/ ja_JP/" and just tested
the build, everything's peachy
(22:20:22) megacoder: stickster, why do more than just take it off
${OTHERS} list?
(22:20:32) quaid: splinux: next week we will make a new set of XML
available that is an update of the content only for web publication, and
it will be available for translation, too
(22:20:35) stickster: megacoder: no, these are LANGs we're actually
(22:20:38) EvilBob: splinux: I think the french translation is quite
(22:20:52) stickster: Someone committed XML into release-notes/it/ and
release-notes/ja_JP/ at some point along the way
(22:21:04) stickster: So when I do "make distclean" and "cvs up" they
all come back from the dead :-)
(22:21:12) ***megacoder wakes up again.
(22:21:17) stickster: np :-)
(22:21:41) megacoder: Right, NO XML in an ${OTHERS} directory. In fact,
no ${OTHERS} directories!
(22:21:48) stickster: megacoder: right... I'll take care of it
(22:22:08) megacoder: stickster, just make sure there is a po/${LANG}.po
before you burn the ${LANG} dir...
(22:22:16) splinux: quaid, when is the string freeze for the release
(22:22:52) stickster: megacoder: Yup, I did
(22:23:06) megacoder: stickster, good boy
(22:23:24) stickster: megacoder: I learn, I learn
(22:23:27) quaid: splinux: it is a slightly loose freeze ... we should
have XML available a few days before 15 March.
(22:23:44) megacoder: slurry?
(22:23:48) splinux: quaid, ok thanks ;-)
(22:25:13) ***quaid starts to pack up
(22:25:30) elliss: One q before we all go...
(22:25:55) elliss: I'd like to branch the yum tutorial for FC5
(22:26:26) elliss: but the notes specify branching docs-common to go
with it
(22:26:53) stickster: quaid: OK, gonna tag "FC-5-GOLD-for-iso"
(22:27:25) splinux: quaid, ok i'm going to work on my po file :)
(22:28:21) quaid: elliss: do you need to branch or just tag docs-common?
(22:28:42) quaid: elliss: branch if you expect that you need to continue
development of the branch of the docs-common, but if a tag is good
enough, isn't that best?
(22:29:22) elliss: I don't know if I need to do either, it's just
recommended on the Wiki page to take docs-common along
(22:29:44) megacoder: but not for branching. All you probably need is to
(22:29:49) megacoder: Both
(22:29:59) quaid: I think he might want to branch for the install-guide
module, though
(22:30:21) quaid: in that development might need to continue on a
version-specific branch, with HEAD going into FC6, right/
(22:30:32) megacoder: Tag both, and then branch ONLY the install-guide?
(22:31:04) elliss: The issue is that FC4 yum tutorial needs to be
amended for FC5
(22:31:17) elliss: pirut, plugins etc.
(22:31:21) quaid: oh, sorry, yum tutorial, right
(22:31:29) megacoder: Even if the branch is updated, it will need to
build with the current toolchain. Right?
(22:31:59) elliss: Yes.
(22:32:19) yeliaB[] left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(22:32:40) megacoder: For now just tag both, branch the guide and hope
for the best ;-)
(22:33:08) quaid: yeah
(22:33:21) quaid: the tag will always let us branch the docs-common if
it needed it
(22:33:22) quaid: right?
(22:33:29) elliss:
(22:33:57) elliss: This is what I was looking at
(22:35:47) megacoder: That's more of a howto rather than a whento
(22:36:13) elliss: Yep. Hence I decided to ask the oracle :)
(22:36:31) stickster: Aaa, Oracle!!!! 
(22:36:32) ***stickster runs screaming
(22:36:55) elliss: I've managed to supress those memories...
(22:37:56) megacoder: select * from memories when 'weather = 'freezes
(22:37:57) quaid: ok, bbl, probably after 2359 UTC
(22:38:24) megacoder: elliss, you sure know how to kill a
conversation ;-)
(22:38:36) megacoder: bbl, maybe
(22:38:41) ***megacoder returns to Valhalla
(22:38:43) stickster: quaid: to survey the damage ;-D
(22:38:47) stickster: megacoder: bye


Stuart Ellis

stuart elsn org

Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E  9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA

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