rpmforge and {enterprise, } Extras (Was Re: Initial Proposal for doing Enterprise Extras=

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

Jonathan Underwood schrieb:
> On 24/09/06, Thorsten Leemhuis <fedora at leemhuis.info> wrote:
>> Reply out-of-order:
>> Jonathan Underwood schrieb:
>[...]
>> Regarding Dag and Dries and/or the rpmforge project in general: I (and I
>> assume many other FESCo members and Extras contributors feel quite
>> similar) would be really really happy if those two and other rpmforge
>> contributors could participate in Extras.
>> But how to make that work? That's the big question, and I don't have an
>> answer.
> Well, in the past, as I understand it, the goals of FE and rpmforge
> have been very different, making a merge not really on the table.
> Notably, as stated in the rpmforge FAQ, the difference between
> rpmforge and FE is
> 
> "The biggest difference is that we provide packages for a range of
> distributions including older Red Hat distributions, Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux and others (eg. CentOS, Aurora) and different
> architectures. If you expect to use both Fedora and Red Hat your
> safest bet is RPMforge. Of course you can mix both, if you like."

Well, after my first more diplomatic shot I'm willing to touch more
dangerous grounds now.

There are afaics (and *please* correct me if I'm wrong) some more big
differences:

- rpmforge wants to (or does already?) build for distributions like Suse
or SLES (someone indicated that to me in private on IRC some weeks ago)

There were two more in the past, I don't know if they are still valid:

- rpmforge now and then replaced packages from the the distributions is
was build for (RHEL, Fedora Core and Extras, which i consider as a
integrated part for Fedora Core, but that's just my view);
- rpmforge builds new packages often for several distributions including
those that are in "Maintenance state" (FC3, FC4 currently); Fedora
Extras is more conservative here

> The current move to build for centos, EL etc means that this
> fundemental difference should disappear. Of course, rpmforge provides
> many useful packages which couldn't move into FE/EE - it wasn't my
> intention to suggest a merger.

Well, why not? Merge the stuff into Extras that can be there; merge the
other stuff with livna and atrpms and everybody is happy because "repo
wars" would be mostly history then.

> What is true though is that Dag, Dries
> et al. have achieved an awful lot towards the same goals that the
> proposed EE seems to have. Hence my suggestion that it seems a shame
> not to approach these guys to say "We're hoping to expand FE to
> include packages for other distros, and since you guys are the proven
> leaaders in this field, we'd really value working with you to build up
> the infrastructure, as we are sure your knowledge and experience are
> valuable"

Well, yeah, that might be a good idea. But note that we try to get
z00dax from http://centos.karan.org/ involved. He AFAIK is in contact
with dag and dries.

>> Someone some weeks ago suggested to me in private that we should merge
>> "Fedora Extras" and rpmforge. That sounds like a good plan to me in
>> general. But a merge always must offer something to make both sides
>> happy. And I'm not sure Fedora Extras can offer enough to make them
>> happy (that's our fault, not theirs).
> More cooporation generally will lead to more packaging work getting
> done and removal of duplication where possible i.e. a bigger
> community.

I agree with that.

> I can't believe either "side" can't see such benefits.

Yeah, but what can Fedora Extras offer them? We are heavily tight to
Core and Red Hat and that heavily limits the things we can offer. They
of course are always invited to join us and I'd try my best to give them
everything we can to make it interesting for them to join us. But I
suppose that's not enough.

>> And there are also different goals
>> in FE and rpmforge that will make a merge even more complicated -- I
>> won't go into the details here about the different goals because those
>> are dangerous grounds that can (and will) quickly lead to never-ending
>> flamewars.
> Other than licensing issues with some packages, i think the goals of
> both projects seem to be converging. Or rather, FE/EE is moving to
> having some similar goals to rpmforge. I don't think flamewars are
> inevitable here. Perhaps my grasp of the situation is naive.

It would be helpful if dag and dries could share their view on this idea
here.

>> Maybe someone neutral that's known and trusted on both sides could act
>> as middle man between FE and rpmforge. That middle man could maybe help
>> getting the goals and backgrounds of the different projects understood
>> on the other side. Maybe that could lead to a better cooperation or even
>> a merge in the long term. Any volunteers?
> I don't consider myself known or trusted enough on both sides, but am
> happy to do anything I can to help.

Well, maybe forward them this discussion and invite them to participate
would be a good start.

CU
thl