[Fedora-ia64-list] [rhelv5-list] Itanium support ...

[John L. Bass]

On 02/16/2010 04:47 PM, Zoran Popovic' wrote:
>
>
> 2010/2/16 Tom Sightler <ttsig at tuxyturvy.com <mailto:ttsig at tuxyturvy.com>>
>
>     ...
>
>     Still, comparisons based solely on "revenue" does fairly represent
>     market share from Redhat's perspective.  Even if revenue was somehow
>     equal, $300 million would be what, probably a few thousand EPIC
>     servers,
>     but that same amount would equate to 10's of thousands of x86 servers
>
>
> or 10's of thousands of blade systems (even bl870s which are high-end
> in that range at the moment only for shortly, while smaller HP
> Integrity blades cost not much more than Xeon-based Proliants - I
> don't know if people around this are aware of that, and that new
> Itaniums will use same motherboard chipsets as new Xeons) ...
> ... or a couple of unknown IBM mainframes, whatever.

The problem here is that RedHat/Fedora is not a Debian like
organization, it's a real "For-Profit Corporation" that requires cash
for salaries and to provide a Return-On-Investment for it's stock
holders. While the majority of Redhat/Fedora Linux users expect FREE (as
in Beer) Linux, that doesn't pay the bills.

For Redhat/Fedora to support the massive cost of development, regression
testing, and distribution of IA64 means it need a justified revenue
stream for that works. That requires Intel, HP, SGI, and other IA64
equipment vendors to fork over significant amounts of money each year to
pay for that work. What we saw, is that those vendors cut their budgets
to cover the Redhat/Fedora direct labor and facilities costs to support
IA64 Fedora.

What we also saw, is that Redhat closely manages Fedora, requiring that
all key Fedora positions are funded RedHat staff, and that Fedora build
facilities have to be on-site and directly managed by Redhat/Fedora
staff. A real Debian like community development model doesn't actually
exist, the the pretense of a community development model, and because of
that, bits not produced directly by Redhat/Fedora must be relabeled and
not represented as a Redhat/Fedora product.

At this point there are two current FREE (as in Beer) Linux releases
that I'm aware of: Debian, and to some degree Ubuntu. It appears that at
least one vendor, HP, is actively releasing patches up stream to support
these releases. Efforts that were repackaging Redhat/Fedora IA64 efforts
seem to have ceased with Fedora IA64 work stopping, which strongly
suggests there is not ANY community based IA64 effort to support
Redhat/Fedora bits, and produce regular up to date releases that track
the Fedora product.

There are however, some significant efforts to keep Debian IA64 on
track, which are being picked up by Ubuntu, and released. LaMont Jones
continues to coordinate Ubuntu IA64 volunteers interested in helping.

The latest Ubuntu bits install fine on SR870 Intel reference platforms,
but fail with console problems when booted after install. LaMont
suggests there are other (HP) platforms that install and operate as
expected, and I plan to get an SR870 in laMont's hands for testing soon.

In the long term FREE (as in Beer) IA64 Linux needs a community based
support program that is not a sham, which means either supporting the
Debian/Ubuntu efforts, or finding and building a team and facilities to
take on the uncoordinated task of cloning Fedora releases on a regular
basis. It also means, that limited vendor funds (both direct cash and
donated labor) should be pooled behind a single FREE (as in Beer) IA64
Linux effort if they expect Linux vendor supported releases like Fedora
or Ubuntu to continue.

Ubuntu appears better funded than Fedora at this point, and is at least
interested in trying to release current IA64 bits, at least from my
vantage point ... So I suggest we join that effort, since Redhat appears
to say it will not pay for Fedora IA64 releases. I'm certainly open to
others ideas and suggestions otherwise.

have fun!
John
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