Meeting Log - 2009-11-19

Thu Nov 19 20:35:14 UTC 2009

20:00 < mmcgrath> #startmeeting Infrastructure
20:00 < zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 19 20:00:35 2009 UTC.  The chair is mmcgrath. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to:  (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:00 < mmcgrath> #topic Who's here?
20:00 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Who's here? (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:00  * ricky 
20:00 < dgilmore> yo
20:00 -!- geppetto [n=james at code.and.org] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:00 < jcollie> yo
20:00 < pitr> helo
20:01 < jcollie> is the NFR conf call supposed to be streamed and recorded?
20:01 < mmcgrath> jcollie: no idea, is that mechanism all working?
20:01 -!- a-k [n=akistler at 2002:6390:a3ef:3:20d:56ff:fe10:bb8d] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:01 -!- sijis [n=sijis at adsl-70-131-60-234.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:01  * nirik is hanging around in the back. 
20:01 -!- josemm [i=josemm at fedora/josemm] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:01 < jcollie> mmcgrath: should be
20:01  * a-k is around
20:02 < mmcgrath> Ok, lets get started.
20:02 < mmcgrath> #topic F12
20:02 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: F12 (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:02 < mmcgrath> .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report/9
20:02 < zodbot> mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/5onzad
20:02 < mmcgrath> lets go through what hasn't been closed yet
20:02 < mmcgrath> .1787
20:02 < mmcgrath> that's me, I'll close it now
20:02 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1787
20:02 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1787 (Change Freeze) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1787
20:02 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1788
20:02 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1788 (Websites) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1788
20:02  * ricky closes all of the websites ones
20:02 < mmcgrath> k
20:02 -!- tmz [n=tmz at fedora/tmz] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:02 < ricky> Oops, they already were :-)
20:02  * sijis is here..
20:02 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1790
20:02 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1790 (Verify RELENG permissions) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1790
20:03  * josemm is here
20:03 -!- RadicalRo [n=radical at 193.254.32.144] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:03 < mmcgrath> smooge mentioned he might be a little late to the meeting today but that one's him and I'm sure it's fine.
20:03 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1796
20:03 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1796 (Disable wiki caching) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1796
20:03 < mmcgrath> I'll do it now
20:03 < mmcgrath> .ticket 1794
20:03 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #1794 (Lessons Learned) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1794
20:03 < mmcgrath> And the last one, lessons learned.
20:03 < mmcgrath> what did we learn this release?
20:03 < mmcgrath> what did and didn't go well?
20:03 < smooge> egooms is here just a little slow
20:03  * abadger1999 shows up
20:04 < sijis> sixxs is not allowing uploads. i checked yesterday
20:04 < mmcgrath> I think the number of mirrors we had at release time was quite good, sat at 85% for a long time
20:04 < mmcgrath> sijis: yeah I saw your note on that on release day, what's the deal?
20:04 < sijis> so i couldn't add the torrents for ipv6 folks
20:04 < mdomsch> the bitflip still caught some mirrors by surprise
20:04 < sijis> yeah, i dunno, i posted a message on the forum and i haven't heard back.
20:04 < mdomsch> even though I had told them about it beforehand
20:04 < mdomsch> someone wanted a reminder that they should run report_mirror after manually bitflipping
20:05 < mdomsch> before the bitflip, we had ~160 mirrors checked in and ready with ISOs
20:05 < mmcgrath> smooge: just checking if 1790 is done
20:05 < geppetto> having rsync of everything available was a huge win, IMO
20:05 < mdomsch> right after the bitflip, we had ~17 ready, up to almost 100 within a few hours, and by today, we're at about 140
20:06 < smooge> mmcgrath, closing right now
20:06 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: 'caught some mirrors by surprise' was it a pretty big problem or just general murmurings?
20:06 < mdomsch> mmcgrath, general
20:06 < smooge> which is an improvement off the old days :)
20:06 < mdomsch> our emails aren't necessarily high priority
20:06 < mmcgrath> yeah
20:06 < mmcgrath> nirik: were you hanging out in #fedora on release day?  How'd the mirrors hold out?
20:06 < mmcgrath> were people having problems getting to isos?
20:07 < dgilmore> sijis: they have never allowed uploads
20:07 < mmcgrath> EvilBob: how about you?
20:07 < mdomsch> also, we didn't have mirrors.*.kernel.org for several hours on release day due to their DNS breakage
20:07  * mmcgrath should have been in there but forgot.
20:07 < dgilmore> sijis: they allow you to recommend a torrent
20:07 < nirik> mmcgrath: things were good.
20:07 < sijis> dgilmore: that's what i meant. :|
20:07 < nirik> opening up the mirrors/torrents early really helped.
20:07 < EvilBob> mmcgrath: not that I noticed
20:07 < sijis> posting a link to the torrent
20:07 < mmcgrath> EvilBob: nirik: k, thanks
20:08 < mmcgrath> sijis: it's possible next release we'll have our own ipv6 torrent so that step might not be so important :)
20:08 < jcollie> yeah, my torrent seeded got pounded right after the announcement
20:08 < mmcgrath> One thing I wanted to note was the night before the release and the various problems nirik and I had with the torrent system.
20:08 < mmcgrath> but it was hard to say for sure if it was really a problem or just torrent behaving as it should.
20:08 < jcollie> s/seeded/seeder/
20:08 < mmcgrath> nirik: how'd your seeders hold up on actual release day?
20:08 < mmcgrath> jcollie: mine did too
20:08 < mdomsch> http://fpaste.org/tGQj/ shows in text the pre-bitflip (first 3) to post-bitflip hourly count of mirrors w/ ISOs, as MM knew it
20:09 < nirik> my torrents couldn't talk to the tracker at all when I got up. I wasn't seeding. ;(
20:09 < nirik> I switched over to transmission and everything came up ok.
20:09 < jcollie> i'm just glad i put a rate limit on
20:09 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: interesting
20:09 < jcollie> i enabled DHT on my seeder, hopefully that helped
20:09 < mmcgrath> nirik: so perhaps rtorrent is teh suck?  :(
20:10 -!- lxo [n=aoliva at 201.82.249.13] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:10 < nirik> yeah, on epel at least. ;( it works fine in fedora, so not sure whats going on there. ;(
20:10 < nirik> I guess I should file a bug on it.
20:10 -!- npatil [n=npatil at 115.240.103.68] has quit Client Quit
20:10 < mmcgrath> <nod>
20:10 < jcollie> i was using rtorrent on F12, i think it's much newer so hopefully fewer bugs
20:10 < mmcgrath> In general though, things went like clock work.
20:11 < mmcgrath> oh, there was one odd thing
20:11 < mmcgrath> stickster: you there?
20:11 < mmcgrath> What happened with the announcement?  Did someone approve it or are you on some auto-approver list?
20:11  * mdomsch seeded at max for a while, has dropped off quite a bit by now
20:12  * mmcgrath assumes mr stickster is a bit busy at the moment.
20:12 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: yeah same here, I actually closed most of my seeders.
20:12 < mmcgrath> Does anyone have anything else related to the release they'd like to discuss?
20:12 < stickster> mmcgrath: Right, it auto-approved for some reaso
20:12 < stickster> *reason
20:12 < stickster> Maybe because I'm on the list of owners/moderators?
20:13 < mmcgrath> stickster: I'm officially under the opinion that relying on moderation is not a good thing :)
20:13 < stickster> In any case, I put both my emails on the "auto-hold" list now
20:13 < stickster> So nothing I post should go straight through any more, as a check measure
20:13 < stickster> Thankfully I had checked all the links, and didn't post it until almost right at the appointed time.
20:13 < mmcgrath> <nod
20:13 < mmcgrath> Ok, if no one has anything else we'll move on to the next topic
20:13 < mmcgrath> #topic Fedora 13 - Jesse's Girl.
20:13 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora 13 - Jesse's Girl. (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:13  * ricky notes that we should all keep a good eye on the webmaster@ queue
20:14 < mmcgrath> So what do we want to see in F13 for infrastructure?
20:14 < mmcgrath> I have a couple of big wants
20:14 < smooge> ah man we need to name the release that
20:14 < mmcgrath> 1) a global search engine
20:14 < mmcgrath> 2) a proper CDN.
20:14 < josemm> +1
20:15 < mmcgrath> and probably a few other things I'm forgetting at the moment.
20:15 < mmcgrath> what do others want to be working on for this release?
20:15 < abadger1999> Packagedb-0.5  w/ tags for yum and critpath markings for bodhi, releng.
20:15 -!- lxo [n=aoliva at 201.82.249.13] has quit Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
20:15 < mmcgrath> oh, 3) finalize alt.fp.o, secondary.fp.o, etc.
20:15 < mmcgrath> 4) death to the term cloud
20:15 < jcollie> is there any F/OSS CDN software? i've never gone looking
20:15 < mdomsch> MM push mechanism, maybe using qpid
20:15 < mmcgrath> but that's a bit out of scope :)
20:15  * lmacken rolls in late
20:16 < mmcgrath> jcollie: I've been talking on various mailing lists, it seems almost everyone rolls their own
20:16 < mmcgrath> and they do it with geiop
20:16 < abadger1999> amqp server that's receiving notifications from cvs and maybe a notification server working off of those messages to replace the cvs syncmail script.
20:16 < ricky> Geo DNS sounds cool :-)
20:16 < mmcgrath> mdomsch: BTW, remember that "have central servers redirect to us1.fedoraproject.org, de1.fedoraproject.org, etc idea?
20:16 < mmcgrath> Someone mentioned on another list that it does horrible things to search engines and page rank.
20:16 < mdomsch> mmcgrath, yes...
20:17 < mmcgrath> looks like everyone in almost every case is using geoip so I see no reason we shouldn't continue down that road.
20:17 < mdomsch> geoip and not geodns
20:17 < mmcgrath> err sorry, geodns
20:17 < mdomsch> ok
20:17 < mmcgrath> I guess I kind of group those into the same technology but they're really not are they?
20:17 < smooge> pretty much everyone I know has tried something else at one point and then just went with geoip after some flameout
20:17 < mdomsch> similar, but at different levels
20:18 < nirik> abadger1999: self service cvs requests? :)
20:18 < jcollie> hmm does BIND do geodns now?  iirc the powerdns stuff looked icky to me
20:18 < mdomsch> jcollie, yes, warthog9 wrote a patch for it
20:18 < mmcgrath> jcollie: it doesn't yet
20:18 < ricky> wikipedia uses pdns for what it's worth
20:18 < mmcgrath> not natively anyway
20:18 < abadger1999> nirik: Yeah, But not for 0.5.0; maybe 0.5.1.
20:18 < ricky> And it has a backend that takes bind-like zonefiles too
20:18 < mdomsch> everyone else uses pdns
20:18 < smooge> centos uses pdns
20:18 < abadger1999> nirik: I'm sorry, about the btw, it's pretty simple so I keep tossing it at new people but they keep tossing it back.  It must have the kiss of death or something.
20:19 < jcollie> does powerdns do dnssec too? i'd rather not go backwards on that front
20:19 < mmcgrath> smooge: oh, that's good to know.  Do you know who's primarly in charge of it?  z00dax or Evolution?
20:19 < nirik> abadger1999: no worries. Would be nice tho.
20:19 < mmcgrath> jcollie: my understanding is yes.
20:19 < mmcgrath> jcollie: but we'll have to verify that.
20:19 < smooge> I think it was Johnny at one point, but it may have moved to Evolution.
20:19  * mmcgrath will ping those guys and find out.
20:19 < smooge> I didn't ask to be blessed to the level of knowing.
20:20 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any other infrastructure technologies they'd like to see?
20:20 < mmcgrath> #help
20:20 < mmcgrath> #idea global search engine
20:20 < mmcgrath> #idea proper CDN probably with geodns and pdns
20:20 < mmcgrath> #idea finalization of the new primary mirror
20:20 < mmcgrath> #idea message bus
20:21 < mmcgrath> #idea MM messaging of some kind
20:21 < smooge> #idea cloud replacement
20:21 < mmcgrath> :)
20:21 < mmcgrath> am I forgetting anything?
20:21 < abadger1999> #idea pkgdb w/ tags and critpath
20:21 < mmcgrath> lmacken: do you guys have any major milestones to have done for this release wrt fcommunity?
20:21 < mmcgrath> #idea insight (probably very soon here)
20:21 < ricky> Zikula for docs would be awesome :-)
20:21 < jcollie> do we wanna go down the road of replacing CVS with ??? for packages? or leave that to rel-eng to figure out
20:21 < abadger1999> #idea notification server (amqp => email)
20:21 < lmacken> mmcgrath: ideally AMQP integration... hooks into our services and live widgets to expose them
20:22 < mmcgrath> <nod>
20:22 < mmcgrath> #idea fedoracommunity AMQP integration with widgets
20:22 < mmcgrath> jcollie: actually I believe there's goign to be a talk of that at fudcon
20:22 < jcollie> ftalk front end in fedoracommunity?
20:22 < lmacken> jcollie: I saw a 'talk' branch in git that ian was hacking on
20:22 < pitr> I'm new here but if You are still using cvs its quite easy to swith to svn from it
20:22 < mmcgrath> but I'm not sure if it'll make it for F13, maybe F14
20:23 < mmcgrath> pitr: we've discussed that in the past, what you gain by doing that is questionable.
20:23 < mmcgrath> people are generally looking to improve workflow, not just the technology on the back end.
20:23 < abadger1999> pitr: Yeah... but the only people who want to move are people who want dvcs so we'll either stick w/ cvs or go dvcs.
20:23 < smooge> rewrite of all infrastructure in go?
20:24 < jcollie> hg and git are the leading candidates, but it's kind of a religious question at this point
20:24 < abadger1999> is go the new javascript?
20:24 < abadger1999> :-)
20:24 -!- lxo [n=aoliva at 201.82.249.13] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:24 < mmcgrath> smooge: go ftw!
20:24 < jcollie> the few samples of go code i have seen so far are about as pretty as perl code
20:25 < smooge> abadger1999, only after its been made into a plugin
20:25 -!- Padula [n=rodrigop at 189.106.61.252] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:25 < mmcgrath> Ok, does anyone have anything else on this topic?  If not we'll move on to the next topic
20:25 < smooge> abadger1999, I thinks it going to be just someone will have to be a villain and say its X. so sorry
20:25 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: id like to try work on updating koji auth/ and notifications during F-13 life cycle
20:26 < ricky> PKI would be nice too :-)
20:26 -!- |pitr| [n=kvirc at 91.150.139.57] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:26 < mmcgrath> #idea updating koji auth and notifications
20:26 < mmcgrath> #idea pki (ricky says he'll do this and it'll be done by january)
20:26 < mmcgrath> :-P
20:26  * ricky runs
20:26 -!- Padula [n=rodrigop at 189.106.61.252] has quit Client Quit
20:26 < dgilmore> #idea further streamling and full integration of secondary arches
20:26 < mmcgrath> Ok, next topic then
20:26 < mmcgrath> #topic Search Engine
20:26 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Search Engine (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:26 < mmcgrath> a-k: hit me!
20:26 < a-k> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Search
20:26 < |pitr|> heh - I lost connection - it seams that ath9k dev's still have things to do ;)
20:27 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i have a bunch of dogtag packages to review on the pki side of things
20:27 -!- llaumgui_ [n=llaumgui at lns-bzn-51f-81-56-136-221.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:27 < a-k> huzaifas and I were thinking we'd have candidates to try out on a PT server in January
20:27 < a-k> Nothing has blown us away yet, but we should have worked through most of the candidates by then
20:27 < a-k> If I can make Apache Solr work, it sounds really nice from the docs
20:27 < a-k> We'll have a better handle on specific PT requirements by January
20:28 < a-k> I think that's about it.
20:28 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: yeah I forgot about that.
20:28 < mmcgrath> a-k: thanks for the update.
20:28 < smooge> pki?
20:28 < smooge> sorry.. will talk off chan
20:28 < mmcgrath> smooge: yeah our pki right now is very... ehh manual
20:28 < mmcgrath> and not fun to manage :)
20:29 < mmcgrath> Ok, and I think that's really all I had for the meeting
20:29 < mmcgrath> #topic Open Floor
20:29 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Open Floor (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:29 < mmcgrath> anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
20:29 < mmcgrath> any new members want to make themselves known?
20:29 < jcollie> our first real f-talk meeting is under way...
20:29 < dgilmore> smooge: public key infrastructure
20:29 < dgilmore> jcollie: its going ok
20:29 < |pitr|> I'm new
20:30 < abadger1999> |pitr|: Welcome.  What would you like to do?
20:30 < abadger1999> :-)
20:30 < smooge> hi |pitr| welcome to Sysadmins Anonymous
20:30 < |pitr|> I've sent email 3 days ago on fedora-infrastructure
20:30 < ricky> Welcome!
20:31 < |pitr|> I'm not quite sure yet
20:31 -!- llaumgui_ [n=llaumgui at lns-bzn-51f-81-56-136-221.adsl.proxad.net] has quit Client Quit
20:31 < |pitr|> I wor as a some kind sysadmin at r&d department of my company
20:31 < |pitr|> I'm good at troubleshooting
20:32 < mmcgrath> |pitr|: have you seen - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report/1
20:32 < mmcgrath> it has a good list of things we're currently working on.
20:32 < |pitr|> right now I'm reading what I can find and trying to follow the discusion
20:32 < |pitr|> no
20:33 < mmcgrath> |pitr|: well welcome, also do hang out in #fedora-admin, that's the business end of the group :)
20:33 < |pitr|> thx
20:33 < mmcgrath> Ok, if no one has anything else to discuss we'll close the meeting in 30s.
20:34 < mmcgrath> alrighty!
20:34 < mmcgrath> #endmeeting
20:34 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
20:34 < zodbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov 19 20:34:51 2009 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
20:34 < zodbot> Minutes:        http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-19/fedora-meeting.2009-11-19-20.00.html
20:34 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-19/fedora-meeting.2009-11-19-20.00.txt
20:34 < zodbot> Log:            http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-11-19/fedora-meeting.2009-11-19-20.00.log.html
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