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Re: Fedora and the System Administrator -- Linux developers can'tsolve political issues ...



On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 08:56, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> <snip my earlier diatribe and ranting and meandering, oops I did it again>
> 
> > but I was going through a divorce, lost my home, then lost my job, and
> > a multitude of other things that left futzing with a desktop manager a
> > very low priority.
> 
> Yeah, the last thing you wanted was "more change."  Understand totally. 
> ;-ppp

Yeah, still catching up with all of that. And changes are still
happening, though all for the good. I got a job, a linux shop, woohoo!
Got my life back in order and met a wonderful woman that I married just
two weeks ago. Hoping things slow down this winter a bit. 

> 
> > would like it if installing software was as easy and as supported as
> > on Windows.
> 
> Try to install _two_ different versions of MS Office on the same Windows
> system.
> 

Nope, in all my years, never had to do that. Installed it on a Terminal
Server, that was fun. 

> Where people see "hard to install" with regard to Linux, I see "DLL
> hell" with regards to Windows.
> 
> So what is it?  Easy installing or DLL hell because the platform does
> _not_ have dependency checking?
> 
> There's no win-win situation, although apt-rpm is getting pretty damn
> easy.
> 
> > but I still have trouble when I go to a music site and can't get
> > realplayer to work right.
> 
> Whoa!  Time out.  That is _not_ a Linux issue!  That's a site/vendor
> issue!  Linux developers can do _little_ about that.
> 
> Next you'll be blaming Linux for unsupported hardware.
> 

Don't get me wrong. I have never blamed the developers of Linux for any
issues. I was just commenting on the vendor support for Windows. I
understand about the industry trying to lock up the whole DVD decoding
issue. That is definitely not the developers fault. The developers have
tried to support DVD, as in decss, and have been sued by the industry.
The industry feels that Windows is safe because it is proprietary, while
the Linux code is open. And the developers have done a wonderful job
with getting as many devices recognized without input from the vendors
themselves. I highly commend what the developers have done without any
support from the vendors themselves. 
The only comment I was making was the ease of installation for most
software. This comes from the vendor supporting and writing drivers for
Windows. As Linux grows in popularity, the vendors will jump on board
and this will become a moot issue. 
> 
> If you start blaming Linux developers for clearly 100% site/vendor
> issues, then there is no way to please you.
> 
> You have to ask Linux developers for things they _can_ do.
> 
> > I even tried Crossover Plugin, and that didn't work just right.
> 
> Emulation never truly "works right."
I will say that Crossover Office does work fairly well with Office 2000.
Which is great when you have to use documents that have been expressly
written for Excel or Word, like our POs here. They are formatted in
Excel. OpenOffice does not handle that well. Though I do use OO for most
everything else including writing documentation. Ugh!
> 
> > On Windows, you download and run and it works.
> 
> And that's because of vendor alliances and other business dealings.
> 
> Yep, sure, that's the fault of Linux developers.  Yep.
As I said above. I was not blaming the developers. I am just frustrated
with getting realplayer to work. Part of that could have been my fault
for trying to load the RealOne player for Linux. It might have bolluxed
things. See, I do try to be bleeding edge. I just wish vendors supported
the system better so that you only had to download and install an rpm
and it works. No tweaking, no fussing. I do have flash, java, etc
working. I was waiting for RH10 and then I was going to do a clean fresh
install to clean everything out and start over. 
> 
> > Okay, so the operating system has major problems, but
> > most things work out of the box. I don't have to go looking up how to
> > install drivers for webcams, scanners, et al.
> 
> Damn I'm good!  [ I knew you would come here ]
> 
> > Okay, so I have an oddball scanner that was only supported under 98,
> 
> Exactomundo.  Now put it together ...
Yeah, it is a firewire scanner from Umax, the 6400. Not supported with
any current OS. A $200 anchor. Actually, it does get recognized by
Linux, but when Sane starts a scan it starts the pass and then freezes
as it hits the end instead of returning and rendering the picture. As I
said before, not enough time between work and remodelling our house to
investigate this further. Though, my wife informed me that she had
another scanner, and HP USB. That worked. Now to learn Gimp so I can get
this photo fixed up for my daughter. :-O
> 
> - I can only view something on one OS
> - Hardware is tied to only one OS
> 
> Hmmm, that means that I have to get my OS and hardware from select
> vendors!  And I have to upgrade my hardware _every_ time I upgrade my
> OS.  And my OS vendor forces me to upgrade my OS!
> 
> Wow!  Maybe there's some things going on that _force_ you into this
> situation???
> 
> Let's blame it on the Linux developers for not "giving me a way out" of
> my vendor lock-in.

No, no, no. there you go again.... :-P I never blamed the developers.
There are a lot of people involved. I blame the vendors who kowtow to ye
god Gates. This will change too. Just frustrating right now.

> 
> > but hey. I figure, if I am an RHCE, it all should be easy for me,
> > but it isn't.
> 
> Because Linux developers can do _nothing_ about the problems you have
> above.
> 
> > I just about aced that test, but still can't get music to play at a
> > website. If I want to play a DVD on my PC then I have to go and get
> > plugins for the software because the system doesn't come with it
> > because of licensing. 
> 
> Exactomundo.  [ At least you get that part ;-]
> 
> > Anyway, don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of RHL. I use it both at
> > work and at home. It just gets frustrating sometimes when things aren't
> > the way you expect them to be. 
> > Okay, still tired, still running my mouth. Getting a cup of joe and
> > shutting up now. 
> 
> Well, I see your points.  I hope you see mine in return.  ;-ppp
> 
Yeppers. I see your points, but I reiterate, I admire the developers. I
have met many of them through the years. I was only speaking about the
frustrations brought about by proprietary software and vendors that
won't play nice. This will change in time. 
Ed 





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