yum flavors vs/ fc1, fc2, fc3...infinity

[Sean Estabrooks]

On Fri, July 16, 2004 11:59 pm, Timothy Murphy said:

> As I understand it, there was an apparent partition table error
> on dual boot machines.
> This was potentially disastrous,
> since people might well have thought there actually was a partition error,
> and taken seriously mistaken remedial action.

Granted, there were some people who had problems.

> To me it is self-evident that computer systems
> should be well-documented,
> and should be as simple to run as possible.

Yup, and within the self-imposed constraints of the release cycle every
effort is made to make the best O/S possible.  You're arguing that it
should be done differently, but there are others who are willing to
accept some rough edges to try out emerging technologies.

Not that it will always be as rough as FC2.  You have to understand that
the new kernel contributed most of the issues and FC2 isn't a good
indicator of what every release will be like.

But the fact remains, Fedora was the perfect place to take on the new
kernel.  People who use most other distributions will never have
to deal with all these issues.  Which is kinda the point.  RedHat gets
to develop new technologies for their stable and supported O/S's and
Fedora users get to try out all the new toys.  That won't appeal to
everyone of course.

> I agree.
> That is why it is a pity Fedora has not kept up the good work in this
> area.

If every distribution was targetted at the exact same audience there would
be little reason for them all to exist.  Fedora is targetted at a group of
people that don't think this is a pity at all.

> You shouldn't wait to "see" if people test FC-3 pre-releases.
> You should make it easier for them to do it.
> My impression is that only a tiny proportion of Fedora users
> actually installed the test distributions.
> Maybe you know better.

The testers _are_ the people who make it easier for others to install.
It's already pretty easy to do some testing if you're so inclined.  But
you're right, there aren't many people who do testing which means that
more problems slip through to the final release versions.

> This was the major cause of the problems
> which contrary to your beliefs were fairly widespread.

*shrug*  Nobody has any hard numbers.   While it may have affected a large
number of people I submit to you that most people dealt with it rather
well.
Most people who had problems understood the risks of testing a brand new
kernel and a brand new O/S and took proper measures to protect themseves
from disaster.

Perhaps RedHat could have communicated better so that nobody was
blindsided, but I really don't know how.  All the information needed to
make a good decision is on the website.   Perhaps adding a click-through
during the install to say "Are you really really sure you want to do
this?" would be wise.

> Who actually decides these matters?
> Do Fedora users have any say in the matter?

At this point its still the core Fedora team calling the shots but
they've stated a desire to include others going forward.
Check out the website:   http://fedora.redhat.com/about

You can file a bug report or RFE and if it makes sense to one or more of
the developers and they don't have other higher priority items in their
queue you'll get your wish.  If other things take priority you'll have
to wait.

So for instance, Selinux may be higher priority than the ability for a
user to add and remove items on their menu.  Even though many users may
be more interested in the latter, the goals of the project to develop
emerging technologies wins.  As more community developers get involved
over time, some of this may be mitigated.  You may see developers who
carve out a niche for themselves taking care of issues less important to
the main developers.  Who knows, maybe even the core Fedora team will
have an entire release dedicated to usability issues.

There is plenty of room for community developers to step up to the plate
and make contributions like this.  Just as some in the community package
RPMs of applications that the Fedora core team reject for one reason or
another.

Anyway, just like when you shop for anything, you should pick a linux
distribution that best meets your needs.  Nothing convinces a manufacturer
to change course like the people its targetting going somewhere else.  
However, as a guess, I think you'll find that RedHat is perfectly prepared
 for many people to move to other options rather than continue to use
Fedora.   It seems pretty clear that Fedora is targetted at only a subset
of RHL users.

Cheers,
Sean