to newcomers: please try to solve the problem yourself beforeasking

[Edward Croft]

On Sat, 2004-09-11 at 10:21, Beej-in-GA wrote:

> 
> > If I was a new comer to Fedora I would find this message VERY
> OFFENDING!!!!
> > This list exists because of new comers and old comers using Fedora!!!
> >
> > To the original poster Marius Andreiana, and I am an old comer you can
> kiss
> > my white ass!!!
> >
> > Yes I do take offence to your alienating anyone needing information and
> > help!
> > If you do not want to help someone then keep your mouth shut and allow
> > others that want to share do so!!!
> >
> > Dam this pisses me off that someone would be this small and would bitch
> > about users
> > Of this group helping each other!!!
> >
> > Renee Lee
> <SNIP BIG TIME>
> 
> Greetings All,
> As a new user of the list (relatively speaking), I want to thank Renee Lee
> for a strong defense.  At the risk of being blasted by a strong broadsides,
> I was under the impression that the reason this list was set-up was so that
> information could be exchanged and, if necessary, help obtained for problems
> encountered in the running of Fedora.  Now if I am incorrect, could someone
> do two things, one, tell me where such a list exists and two, someone should
> be more clear on what is meant by these two statements on the
> fedora.redhat.com site:  "Discuss this release on fedora-list." and "Join
> the fedora-list mailing list or chat with other participants on IRC."  It
> has been my experience on the web, that when there is a discussion list
> available for  a topic, then that list is for the exchange of ideas, tips,
> and discussion about ways to improve the product and get solutions to
> problems.  I made the same assumption here.  Generally speaking, I have
> found it to be the case here as well, but now it appears I may have been
> mistaken.  If this is the case, I do humbly apologize.  I would, however,
> like to point out that there are on most keyboards a key called delete.  The
> purpose of this is to get rid of unwanted things.  It is used by
> highlighting the thing and pressing the key.  For the information of Mr.
> Marius and Mister Robert P. J. Day, it is very hard to do a google search
> and /or consult the (NON EXISTENT) manual when you don't know what question
> to ask or anything but the symptom you are seeing.  Yes, DAGS/RTFM is always
> the first choice we use, then we come here for help.  Have a pleasant day.
> Best Regards,
> Beej
> 
> 
Normally, I would snip for brevity, but I think that what Renee Lee said
rather colorfully sounds true. I have been online since the days of
Compuserve/Prodigy/Odyssey, et al. Newsgroups have always been a forum
for information interchange. To Beej, I offer an apology for the rude
treatment from those who choose to feel superior to others. I prefer to
take the road of the bodhisattva, a person who seeks enlightenment, but
when they reach it, decide to remain so as to enlighten others. You are
most welcome here to ask any question. Those of us who wish to share,
will endeavor to assist as best we can. Even though I am an RHCE, and
have been working in the computer field since 85, I still run into
problems. I have also been lambasted here for asking a question that to
one person is so simplistic, thus all us "lower people" are stupid. I
know how to Google, but if you don't ask just the right question, you
sometimes have to wade through mounds of useless info. Sometimes it is,
as you said, not knowing how to ask the right question. I have asked
questions here for expediency and have been flamed. I just ignore them. 
I have given here, in the Red Hat forum, piranha forum, and many others.
For the most part, they are just like a group of coworkers, most
understand that sometimes we have brain farts and can't remember shit
days. You know, the days when you ask a question of a coworker and then
slap your forehead with a big duh! Like Renee, I have made comments
after some members have attacked newbies for not googling, searching the
archives, praying to the deity of their choice for enlightenment before
asking a question. I think that is utter nonsense. So grasshopper, any
time you wish to ask a question feel free. I promise that you will never
get a flame from me. While I wish that all members were nurturing and
welcoming to all, you will encounter the BOFH (Bastard Operator from
Hell) from time to time. These people need lessons in people skills.
Just know that there are more of us who are willing to help and
evangelize Linux. It is a wonderful operating system that brings freedom
and flexibility and better security. I hope you can push aside the mean
spirited people and engage the wisdom of the good people that are in
this forum. 
Ed