ESR: Goodbye Fedora

[Mike McCarty]

Steffen Kluge wrote:
> 
> On 24/02/2007, at 3:07 AM, Mike McCarty wrote:
> 
>>> Firstly, I replaced my firewall and Internet exposed servers with   
>>> OpenBSD boxes a couple of years ago. The OpenBSD camp are stuck- up  
>>> and hostile bunch, but with the sheer number of security  patches my  
>>> Linux boxes required on a regular basis I just didn't  feel  
>>> comfortable anymore to put them in the first line.
>>
>>
>> You can make this same criticism for any of the *NIX like OS groups,
>> though things are improving. *NIX with its cryptic, often only two
>> letter commands, and command switches no two of which look similar
>> to each other, *breeds* guru mentality.
> 
> 
> What same criticism? That Linux isn't security-centered enough? Well,  

Sorry I wasn't clear. The criticism I meant was "stuck-up and
hostile".

> that clearly doesn't apply to *some* Unixes, such as OpenBSD. Two- 
> letter commands don't affect security, and neither does guru mentality.

Two-letter command attract those with "guru mentality".

>> In short, fiddling with an OS is not a hobby for you, nor for many.
>> Linux, in general, is for fiddlers and those for whom such fiddling
>> is a hobby.
> 
> 
> Well, it used to be a hobby of mine, but it becoming less and less  so. 
> Apart from that, the Linux community is making far too many  claims of 
> real-world usefulness to withdraw behind the excuse of  being "merely 
> experimental" everytime someone points out a  shortcoming. This isn't 
> the early 1990's anymore.

Yes, I'm rather put off by that, myself. When someone points out
that Linux distros lack any real QA, and the user interface is still
"not there", then the side of the mouth is "Linux is still in
development, it's experimental, or you need to learn how to use
man and apropos", but then it sure seems like many want it to compete
with Widows and MacOS and complain that Dell doesn't ship their
laptops with some distro on it. BTW, "Linux" is not "a thing".
Everyone who likes it has his favorite distro.

[snip]

>> If installing and fiddling is not your "thing", then Fedora is not
>> for you.
> 
> I know the mantra. I've been chanting it myself. On the other hand,  if 
> all the fiddling never yields any meaningful results or progress  then 
> it isn't much more than pissing against the wind. I have the  impression 
> that this was one of ESR's gripes with Fredora.

I won't presume in that direction. But I disagree with the sentiment.
FC is "upstream" for RHEL.

>> My girlfriend, at my suggestion, is running
>> Debian, and it works well enough, and is stable enough.
> 
> My wife and one of my sons used to run Fedora, without any stability  
> problems, too. But it was a very time-consuming affair for me, they  
> couldn't do much themselves, only what I've set up or made working  for 
> them.

I meant that the distro is stable. It changes infrequently, and has
a good support mail list.

Debian is easier to configure than FC, in my experience.

> Those of us who live and breathe Unix tend to lose touch with what  
> user-friendliness means for computer illiterates. Give me the command  
> line anyday, I much prefer it to any incarnation of "file managers".  
> However, the command line doesn't mean squat to my family. The have  to 
> put up with the ghastliness of GUI file managers.

Well, we're both on the same page here.

>>> Of course, Apple have an unfair advantage, they make their own   
>>> hardware...
>>
>>
>> Well, they *market* their own hardware.
> 
> 
> In fairness, they design and engineer it, and have it made in China.

What I meant.

>> Linux has one really big flaw in one sense...
>>
>> It has no rudder at all. Linux is not a product. Some distros
>> attempt to be somewhat a product. Fedora makes no bones about
>> it: Fedora Core is NOT A PRODUCT, IT IS A PROJECT.
> 
> 
> Projects have rudders, too. Or at least, they should (it's called  
> project management). And they should have long terms goals and  
> strategies. And they should communicate those.

FC has pretty clearly define objectives, I think.

Mike
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