We need a new subject- bug fixes

Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com
Mon Mar 5 22:15:02 UTC 2007


Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

>> All programs are like programming... 
> What does that have to do with how they are configured?
> The difference is that with most of
>> the others, the distribution provides something that works so you don't
>> have to rewrite the programming yourself.

> That is because they use more rational configuration method.

No they don't.  Have you built a kernel from scratch that included 
everything that fedora includes?  Or apache with all the modules built?
It isn't fun - or very rational. However, you don't have to do that if 
you install fedora.  The point of the packaged distribution  is that the 
work is already done and maintained.

> Maybe
> if Sendmail did as well, it could be treated the more like other
> services.

Sendmail does give you the opportunity to use a pre-built configuration. 
Fedora just doesn't provide one that gives the upstream functionality.

>   The fact that sendmail's
>> macro language permits you to add unique operations is a feature, but
>> unless you need something unique (rare in a service with a standard
>> specification...) you shouldn't have to modify anything at that level.
>>
> This is the key - services with standard specifications. Sendmail is
> non-standard when compared to other services.

There are standard specifications for mail behavior.  None of the other 
programs follow any standards for config files.  How you make it do it 
doesn't matter.

> So why should it be
> treated like other services. Or are you saying that there should be
> a configuration program that directly modifies sendmail.cf?

To put it in line with the way other fedora configurations work, 
sendmail.mc should include lines from a directory under /etc/sysconfig 
that would control a few common options and allow milters to add 
themselves independently. There might be a system-config-sendmail 
utility that controlled the settings of those optional lines.  Like 
other services, users should not need to edit the configs directly 
unless they have non-standard environments.

> If you
> want a mail program that can be configured like other services, then
> you need a mail server that is configured like other services.

No you don't.  You need the distribution to handle it the way it does 
the gazillion other programs it includes.

> You keep harping that Sendmail should accept incoming mail by
> default,

I'm not sure I've ever said exactly that, but you keep saying I said it 
for some reason.  I'm saying enabling or disabling its access to the 
network should be handled the way the distribution handles other programs.

> but you never give a valid reason why that should be the
> default. Everything I hear comes back to "That is the way I use it,
> so it should be configured that way."

Email would not be useful if someone doesn't accept network connections. 
So even if not everyone needs it, clearly some do.

 > What you can't seam to grasp
> is that your setup will work for maybe 1% of the users.

OK, if those are the ones that are making email work for the rest of the 
others, I'd consider them too important to ignore.

-- 
    Les Mikesell
     lesmikesell at gmail.com




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