Fedora - DELL ?

[Les Mikesell]

Andy Green wrote:

>> Is there something unique about the linux kernel that should matter to 
>> me?  It is a convenient place to run X, apache, sendmail, perl, nfs, 
>> java, firefox, openoffice, etc. and I use it because it has hijacked 
>> much driver and kernel development that might have gone into the 
>> *bsd's otherwise.  But I'll turn your comment around and point out 
>> that Linux 
> 
> But your complaints centre on Linux and the GPL.

In particular the GPL's restriction against being combined with anything 
with any different restrictions. And on the refusal of Linux to present 
a stable driver interface with clearly defined copyright boundaries.

>> wouldn't exist without the design and specification of the original 
>> proprietary version of unix, and those other applications wouldn't 
>> exist without their original proprietary host OS's and in many cases 
>> their own proprietary versions.  If you are going to pay homage to the 
>> development
> 
> You should turn it around a little further: Linux wouldn't exist as it 
> is without the GPL, because the same set of contributors and the same 
> ecosystem would not have formed.

Perhaps their work would have gone into something less restricted and 
helped people in many more ways like apache and java have.

 > When you compose your complaints about
> the downstream effects of the GPL limiting what can be bundled, you 
> should consider effect #0: it gave you the thing in the first place.

But, it doesn't, and probably can't replace the other things I use and 
its components can't be used to help make them all interoperate.

> People did a lot of work and gave you the result for free so you would 
> have something to complain about.

If someone gives you something that isn't what you want, how grateful 
can you be?  I'm grateful for the BSD TCP work that, since it could be 
used without restrictions, permitted the development of an interoperable 
   internet instead of isolated islands of SNA, DECnet, IPx, NetBUI, 
Appletalk, etc.  Had such an innovation been GPL'd it would have just 
become 1 more protocol that only a few things could use instead of
being able to help everything interoperate.

> That is what should be acknowledged. 
> It doesn't mean falling to your knees and weeping.  But instead of 
> acknowledging it, which should be easy enough since the evidence is all 
> around you, you find yourself reaching into the GPL and picking out a 
> specific feature of the license to complain about in response 
> instead[1].  Your point is that this license feature means they didn't 
> do all that work and give it to you for free?

My point is that the work can't be used in many ways. It's being free 
doesn't keep me from having to buy other OS's - and its code can't even 
be used to help improve those other OS's.  I appreciate whatever 
components that came from freebsd that help make OS X reliable and if 
windows has included some to finally make its networking stable, so much 
the better - those things help everyone who has to co-exist.

> No, it means you have a 
> problem acknowledging that you are the recipient of their kindness, 
> because doing so puts the complaints in a different, more holistic light.

Yes, I have a problem acknowledging that there is anything kind about 
placing absolute restrictions on how code may be combined and redistributed.

> In practice it does typically mean that unless the patent is used in 
> crosslicensing horsetrading, it won't be granted in a redistributable 
> way for $0: because then why bother with a patent.  So patents 
> inherently stand against free and freely redistributable software like 
> Fedora, GPL or no GPL.  The content rightsholders that will leverage 
> that by patented codec choice stand against it too: why reward that with 
> your money.

I'm more interested in software that is affordable and correct than in 
being able to redistribute copies.  If the price is right, it doesn't 
have to be $0.  My complaint is simply that there is no way to include 
any GPL'd components as part of such a thing, so it can't help with the 
affordability or correctness.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
    lesmikesell at gmail.com