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Re: fc6 nearing eol but f7 not useable yet (rant or feedback?)

Kevin Kofler wrote:
Mike Wright <mike.wright <at> mailinator.com> writes:
First mess is the "Package Updater".  1) That's not the ! #$%ing
program's name.

Blame Fedora's GNOME Desktop Team for this mess. We KDE SIG members are fighting as we can to get the menu entries to at least _include_ the real name of the apps. (There's no reason they can't include both the name and the generic name, e.g. "Pup Package Updater".)

Its toolbar icon has no properties associated with it
so I can't even tell what it launches.

In KDE, you can right-click and "Edit this entry...", which will both tell you what is being launched and allow you to fix the name.

The app itself has no "About"
button.  In fact, one must perform command line forensics to even find
out that the program's name is "pup".  (I prefer the spanish
pronunciation.)  Why, oh why, is every package preselected?  Why is the
"update list" window not resizeable?  Absolutely one of the worst user
interfaces I have ever used.  Actually, it's hard to call it a UI since
there is no interaction allowed except "click the mouse several hundred
times", quit, or apply, and it provides no user feedback except when it
barfs on itself.  Is it hanging?  Is it running?  Is it stalled?
Absolutely no way to tell.  Oh, a dependency issue.  Option of ignore or
continue?  No way, those choices are not available.  Error out.

Pup was not designed for experienced users. You'll have more luck with Yumex, Synaptic (my personal preference) or smart-gui. Yumex is the path of least resistance as it's based on yum, Synaptic is based on apt-rpm, smart-gui on smart. (There's also KYum, but it isn't very actively maintained and Yumex is more powerful.)

Second, where did the Applications->Run Program option go?

It's still there in KDE.

Third, why does the bottom toolbar show up about two inches below the
top one?  Right clicking on its far left edge gives me some options:
click "expand" twice and it returns to its position at the bottom.

Why are the toolbar widgets now locked to the toolbar?  What, don't like
us rearranging things according to our own tastes?  OK fine, just right
click, Unlock.  Right click, Move.  Swell.  I get the plus sign shaped
move cursor but it doesn't work!  I can't rearrange the toolbars.

These sound like more GNOME bugs, you'll probably have more luck with KDE.

Well, maybe it's got its panties in a bunch.  I'll just logout and try
again.   Oh my!  Isn't this sweet.  Where are the toolbars?  Why doesn't
right click do anything?  Fortunately,  I shortcut keyed an xterm.
Enter the shortcut key combo and I get an xterm window with borders and
no prompt, no cursor, zippadeedoodah!

No metacity (the GNOME window manager) running maybe? Try "metacity --replace" to see if that fixes it. Or try KDE instead. ;-)

Q: if it's really to be known as f7 why are the kernels named
"something.fc7"?  I think the decision to change the naming scheme
wasn't wise.  Google on f7 and you'll get lots of hits on the function
key but very little on fedora.

Because disttags need to increase monotonically. .fc7 > .fc6.

Q: why was it decided to put marketing names on the applications and
remove their properties?  How are we supposed to help debug, etc, if the
program identities are hidden from us?  This decision forces users back
into CLI mode.  Kind of defeats the whole GUI approach, doesn't it?

See my first paragraph.

I'll also take a look at KDE to see if I have better luck there.

I think you will. Also try one of the alternatives to pup.

        Kevin Kofler

If you want something that works and you can watch it, open a root Terminal and type yum update <enter> and sit back and watch.


	Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
	Linux User
	#450462   http://counter.li.org.

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