Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

[max bianco]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web at comcen.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>  On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 10:44 -0400, max wrote:
>  > Da Rock wrote:
>  > > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:39 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
>  > >> Alastair Neil wrote:
>  > >>>
>  > >>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now at gmail.com
>  > >>> <mailto:wayward4now at gmail.com>> wrote:
>  > >>>
>  > >>>     On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:05 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
>  > >>>      > That article ENTIRELY got it wrong. All RedHat said was they won't be
>  > >>>      > pushing Linux on the consumer desktop for some time. They make their
>  > >>>      > money from servers, and they are a company, so it's not in their best
>  > >>>      > interest to have a product they aren't profiting from.
>  > >>>
>  > >>>     OTOH, as I've said for years, desktops beget servers. Who in their right
>  > >>>     mind would have ever thought that Windows would become a choice as a
>  > >>>     server platform?? The Windows3.1 users got used to the desktop and it
>  > >>>     rolled from there. Disregard the desktops of college entry level users,
>  > >>>     and they'll migrate with their favorite platform and comfort level to
>  > >>>     using it to admin their future server needs. What's not to understand in
>  > >>>     this? RedHat could very well be blowing their lead and not seeing it
>  > >>>     until too late in the game to recover.
>  > >>>
>  > >>>     We (RH) used to have college programs all over the place ...usually
>  > >>>     promoted as install fests at Universities. I haven't heard of one in the
>  > >>>     press for years now. Servers are where the money is, no doubt. But, it
>  > >>>     is better IMHO to have the future admins loyalty through the user
>  > >>>     desktop by catering to them. I spent years in Marketing. I learned to
>  > >>>     never EVER disregard the little guy. He might become the next purchasing
>  > >>>     agent and/or decision maker. My two cents, Ric
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>> An where has it got Microsoft? 20 years and countless billions invested
>  > >>> in marketing and they still manage only 30% of the server market.
>  > >>>
>  > >>> True, Novel lost out to WinNT in part because users got used to the
>  > >>> Windows interface and wanted a similar experience for managing their
>  > >>> servers.  I refuse to believe that there is such a  gulf between Ubuntu
>  > >>> and RHEL in functionality that users would have the same visceral
>  > >>> reaction and defect in droves from RH to Ubuntu - because they love
>  > >>> brown backgrounds on their Gnome desktops.  Red Hat has focused its
>  > >>> desktop efforts on crafting a distribution that is best in class for
>  > >>> administering servers, just as SUSE is crafting a business productivity
>  > >>> centric desktop distribution with an emphasis on Windows
>  > >>> interoperability (thus Evolution, Mono/silverlight and "Don't Sue us
>  > >>> please Bill!" agreements).  These distros have carved their own niches,
>  > >>> I don't as yet know what Ubuntu's niche is - windows malcontents? home
>  > >>> tinkerers/hobyists?  Small Home Office?  You could argue that this is
>  > >>> exactly the way linux started and who knows in 10 or 20 years maybe they
>  > >>> will have a significant enterprise share, however, I doubt it.  Being
>  > >>> able to play MP3's out of the box rarely makes it onto a enterprise
>  > >>> server deployment specification.
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >> This is an interesting comment.  Just a few days ago, I read an article
>  > >> about Microsoft pointing out companies that have moved from Linux
>  > >> servers due to the desktop support as well as gui management tools.  Of
>  > >> course I hear that they are now adding more command line tools for
>  > >> administration due to demand.
>  > >>
>  > >> I see two aspects to this part of the debate.
>  > >>
>  > >> If people use Linux at work, they will be more likely to use it at home.
>  > >>   They will use what they are familiar with.  Most computer users are
>  > >> not that intelligent to using their computers.  Some cannot even figure
>  > >> out how to update their computers.
>  > >>
>  > >> As for MS not getting a larger server share, this is a strange aspect.
>  > >> Part of the issue in the past has been many admins that new Unix found
>  > >> it easier to move to Linux from Solaris or other versions.  The share of
>  > >> Windows servers from what I am reading is increasing.  I see this as a
>  > >> result of the new point and click mentality.  If you cannot click it,
>  > >> then you cannot manage it.  Damn kids today.  :)
>  > >>
>  > >
>  > > I know thats the mentality, but my god thats bullshit! I'll use cli
>  > > anyday for major tasks- try migrating stats support on a IIS server with
>  > > 400+ sites then you'll know!
>  > >
>  > >> FWIW, this thread has brought out many of the comments that have been
>  > >> stated in this article.
>  > >>
>  > >> Did Canonical Just Get Punked by Red Hat and Novell?
>  > >> http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/04/did-canonical-j.html
>  > >>
>  > >> Basically, the announcements are to support the server sales.
>  > >>
>  > >> I did like this comment though.
>  > >>
>  > >> "Curiously, very little attention was paid to Ron Hovespian's comments
>  > >> on Novell's similar plans, made before Red Hat's. If I were Novell, I
>  > >> would take this as a bad sign. Not only did the mainstream media not
>  > >> pick up on Novell's news, but even most of the hard-line Linux
>  > >> blogosphere wrote them off with nary so much as a "meh" And if you can't
>  > >> get those folks mad, you must be doing something wrong! :)"
>  > >>
>  > >>  From the people that I know, the reason to move from Fedora is the
>  > >> upgrade path being easier.  Longer support is appreciated.  Some of
>  > >> these people are also old time Solaris users as well.
>  > >>
>  > >> I will stick with Fedora as long as I can get third party application
>  > >> that me and my family use.  If they are only available on Ubuntu, then I
>  > >> will have to move.
>  > >
>  > > I think it comes down to ease of support as well. If support doesn't
>  > > keep up then the software is rendered useless. Ie MPlayer and codecs...
>  > >
>  > Obviously Fedora is not for the faint of heart.
>
>  No, unix is not for the faint of heart- Fedora could and should be made
>  easier to gain a greater share of platforms (and help reduce the zombies
>  on the net).
>
Greater share of platforms? why? If you define success by marketshare
then M$ won long ago. Everyone else might as well curl up in a corner
with their knees to their chest and blubber. You say you want to
*take* market share but what ever for?what will you do with the
marketshare once you have it?Spend all your time wondering how to keep
people from jumping ship that's what.


Max