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Re: Folderview doesn't work with nvidia. Was prevent people from making mistakes?



Linuxguy123 wrote:
> So why are the developers writing software for hardware that doesn't
> have a working driver ?

There's your first broken assumption, where did we claim that our software
is written to work with the NVidia driver? The next one is that it is
Fedora's software in the first place. It's not, it's the KDE project's
software.

> Does that sound production ready ?

That depends on your definition of "production ready". It just works on
supported hardware (i.e. the one with drivers actually *in* Fedora).

> And it isn't just that folderview runs slow.  In KDE4.1.3, it totally
> freezes my UI.

That still doesn't mean it's a bug in KDE or Fedora.

>> Next time buy hardware with Free (as in speech) drivers.
> 
> And which laptop available high performance video card would that be ?

My Intel GMA 965 integrated graphics work just fine, thank you very much.
(There were 2 versions of my laptop, one with Intel integrated graphics,
one with NVidia crap, I deliberately picked the Intel version, not because
of the small price difference, but because of the Free drivers.)

And some of the Mobility Radeons are supported (with 3D acceleration) by the
radeon driver, but you have to make sure it's not a HD one (if you can
figure out the internal chipset number, that's the most reliable way to
check, r1xx to r5xx are supported, r6xx and r7xx (the HD ones) not yet -
there are rumors that this will change soon, but I wouldn't count on it
just yet).

> The KDE FAQ states a few options that users have to tune their xorg.conf
> files.  A simple app that added or removed those options from a GUI
> would be greatly appreciated.   So would mention of this issue in the
> F10 Release Notes.

Fedora's release notes are not a substitute for KDE's, if it's documented in
KDE's FAQ, IMHO that's sufficient.

As for a tool to configure this, file an RFE with RPM Fusion, your driver
comes from there, not Fedora. You have to file your bug reports and
enhancement requests with the people who can actually fix your bugs or add
your features.

>> Why should we? It's up to you to contact NVidia (which is what we told
>> you to do).
> 
> Again, is this a PRODUCTION READY strategy ?

We are a community distribution, not a paid support provider, we make it
very clear that bugs should be reported to the upstream entity actually
providing the software unless they're caused by a modification Fedora did
(and usually this means you file the bug against the Fedora package and we
tell you "this is actually a bug in XYZ, please file in XYZ's bug tracker
and post a link to the upstream report here"). And that's even more the
case if (like in this case) the software with the bug isn't even PART of
Fedora. The correct downstream bug tracker would be RPM Fusion (kmod-nvidia
component), but they'll almost certainly tell you to file the bug with
NVidia (because the RPM Fusion maintainers can't fix bugs in NVidia's
proprietary blob any more than we can!), so it's best to do this right
away.

What part of "Comments, complaints about nvidia's drivers should go to
nvidia." don't you understand?

>> We provide a version of folderview which works with any graphics card
>> with working drivers. If the driver is buggy, the driver needs to be
>> fixed, not the folder view.
> 
> Leaving the end user screwed.

That teaches you a lesson not to rely on proprietary drivers.

The cold hard truth is that we have NO WAY to fix anything in their drivers,
because 1. we (Fedora) don't ship the drivers, RPM Fusion does, 2. neither
we (Fedora) nor the RPM Fusion maintainers have the source code, so it's
extremely hard to modify anything and 3. the license forbids modification,
or at least distributing modified versions (so even if the RPM Fusion
maintainers did go through the trouble of patching the binary blob, which
is almost impossible, it would be illegal to distribute the result).

>> And there haven't actually been _any_ changes to the folderview applet
>> between KDE 4.1.2 and 4.1.3, your regression must come from somewhere
>> else (different version of the NVidia driver maybe?).
> 
> I'm an end user.  Should I have to look at code and regression stuff to
> figure out what changed as to why folderview doesn't work.

No. As you can see, I did it for you and concluded nothing changed on our
end.

When it worked for you with KDE 4.1.2, was that on Fedora 9? The default
kmod-nvidia in RPM Fusion for F9 is an older revision, you can find it in
RPM Fusion's F10 repo under the name kmod-nvidia-173xx. Try that version,
it may "fix" the issue for you. But it's really just a workaround. You have
to report your bug to NVidia to get it fixed. They are THE ONLY ONES who
can fix it (because their driver is proprietary and binary-only).

>> > The user is left to figure things out for themselves.  Go manually play
>> > around with your xorg.conf file.  Which has been the norm for nvidia
>> > users since RH8 days, except that livna, now RPMFusion finally came to
>> > the rescue recently.
>> 
>> That's because proprietary drivers are not, have never been and will
>> never be supported in Fedora.
> 
> Yeah, but Fedora is responsible for shipping PRODUCTION READY stuff.

Fedora is not responsible for anything.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/LicenseAgreement9
| 3.  LIMITED WARRANTY.  Except as specifically stated in this agreement
| or a license for a particular component, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT
| PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE AND THE COMPONENTS ARE
| PROVIDED AND LICENSED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
| EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
| MERCHANTABILITY, NON-INFRINGEMENT OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
| PURPOSE.  Neither the Fedora Project nor Red Hat warrants that the
| functions contained in the Software will meet User's requirements or
| that the operation of the Software will be entirely error free or
| appear precisely as described in the accompanying documentation.
| USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS AT USER'S OWN RISK.

> And if folderview doesn't work with nvidia hardware, I'd hardly call
> that PRODUCTION READY.

You're using unsupported, third-party, binary-only drivers, you are
completely on your own.

        Kevin Kofler


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