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Re: infrastructure modest proposal




Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Kevin Martin <kevintm ameritech net> wrote:
>   
>> FWIW, the 3 layer model is used to great effect in everyday business.
>> First, there's "testing" where the developers get to play to their
>>     
>
> 3 layers.. without referencing rawhide:
> Koji scratch builds:
> developers and maintainers have access to binaries in Koji and can do
> a number of scratch builds as needed before submitting them to the
> updates system for general consumption.  Maintainers can and do list
> Koji urls in bug reports to get pre-release feedback from bug
> reporters if its warrented, before even moving to updates-testing.
>
>
> updates-testing:
> Where community QA is meant to happen.
> How many people have updates-testing enabled? Do you?
>
> updates:
> Stable updates which 'typically' have gone through updates-testing and
> gotten feedback.
>
>
> caveat:
> Maintainers have the discretion to bypass updates-testing for critical
> fixes and security updates. The dbus update was marked as security
> update with a valid CVE listing. It was inadvertently pushed to stable
> in error bypassing testing.
>
> I'm not sure what sort of policy change could have prevented this and
> yet would not have also significantly impacted the speed at whichl
> security updates are made available.  Are you willing to have all
> security updates held back for a week in updatest-testing to protect
> against what happened with dbus?  I don't think I can justify that as
> a policy initiative.
>
> The only thing which is going to help prevent what happened with dbus,
> is implementing "enough" mandatory automated testing somewhere in the
> process that all packages submitted to stable must go through...even
> all security tagged updates. Even automated testing has costs, and if
> we have "too much" it will also impact the speed at which security
> updates can be delivered.
>
> Are you willing to help implement more automated testing?
>
> -jef
>
>   
It sounds as if I touched a nerve here and, if so, I apologize.  I was
simply trying to point out an "industry practice" that makes some
sense.  That being said:

I could be convinced to help implement more "automated testing" if I
understood what that meant. 

The argument of getting "critical" and security fixes out in a timely
fashion seems valid but it's apparent that, in this case, testing of the
"fix" would have gone a long way in preventing the issue at hand from
occuring (and should these fixes *really* not be QA'd at all?   We see
in our software many times where what appears to be a very small "fix"
ends up cascading down the line into other problems that need to be
"fix"'d.  I don't know, and excuse me if this is offensive, if taking
the Microsoft stance of rolling out "fixes" without proper testing is a
boon to the community.). 

No, I don't have updates-testing enabled since my only Fedora box is my
production laptop that I use for work (and continues to run F8 as a
result until F10 is stable) *and* personal use...if this had occured on
this laptop I would have been royally f*d!

Again, I'm not trying to criticize the work done by the Fedora
developers/maintainers et. al.  I'm simply saying that, possibly, better
procedures may have stopped this from happening in the first place.

Kevin


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