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Re: [Usability] Call for vote: Nautilus use Browser view for fedora 11
- From: Mark <markg85 gmail com>
- To: "Olav Vitters" <olav bkor dhs org>
- Cc: Development discussions related to Fedora <fedora-devel-list redhat com>, usability gnome org, "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
- Subject: Re: [Usability] Call for vote: Nautilus use Browser view for fedora 11
- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:14:18 +0100
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Olav Vitters <olav bkor dhs org> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:02:26PM +0100, Mark wrote:
>> To the people reading the gnome usability list and see this for the
>> first time.. look here for the full discussion (about 150 posts):
>> Now on topic.
>> Lets do a little rounding up (conclusions how i see them! correct me
>> if i'm wrong on any of them)
>> 1. Somewhere in 2003 or 2004 it is decided for whatever reason to make
>> the spatial mode in nautilus and put it as the default mode. To my
>> knowledge no research is done if people even wanted that. it just got
>> pushed through there throat and they are expected to just take it in
>> not spit it out. We are now (and a lot of users back then) spitting
>> that decision out and clear that bad taste. Nearly all gnome based
> Please keep it constructive. Above comparison is not. You will likely
> get heated responses because of it (see also below).
>> distributions do the same and the people using those distributions
>> seems to be happy about the browser mode.
> You provide no basis for that statement.
No basis.. do i need one? Look at Ubuntu and all other distros that
provide gnome and see how much of them use the browser or spatial
>> 2. I always was under the impression that gnome especially was a
>> democracy but it turns out it's under dictatorship and then call it:
>> "Meritocracy" with a dictator like taste.
> Please don't make such loaded comparisons if you want to continue to
> post to a GNOME mailing list. See http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct.
> I've read most of the thread on the Fedora mailing list. I am not
> interested in a repeat.
It's just an observation and seems to be true till this moment.
>> 3. Fedora has a community but when the community starts demanding
>> something (use the browser mode as default) then it turns out that the
> A few votes on a mailing list. This has been dismissed already.
>> 4. There is just ONE person here that decided to make it spatial and
>> that one person can't be convinced (Alexander Larson). Just look at
> That is not true.
Then give me a link where that disision is made otherwise i see it as true.
>> 5. I was about to open a bug report on gnome for this now but it turns
>> out there is one already:
> Just general FYI: Discussion is not appreciated on (bgo) bugreports
> (should be done elsewhere, e.g. in a mailing list), so please do not add
> comments about things that have been said before.
> The purpose of a bugreport is to discuss how the bug should be fixed
> (which in above bugreport would just be a config change).
I don't agree on that. i even saw ppl on the gnome bugzilla
(developers!) telling the other users to post it to the mailing
list(s) as well to raise awareness. And i think i did that.
>> 6. Convincing people.. yea possible but is FOUR (yes 4!) FREAKING
>> YEARS not proof enough that there decision was wrong. If that doesn't
>> convince them, again mainly or even only Alexander Larson, then they
>> can simply not be convinced in this subject.
> Baseless statement. In your mind the decision is wrong. However, you
> even haven't convinced everyone of that fact. This was already mentioned
> on the Fedora mailing list.
Not only in my mind. the majority agrees with me that browser mode
should be the default.
And to give that a base. read this full list and search on google.
>> 7. This is a conclusion again about the community. A few months ago
>> Max Spevack came to my school to hold a presentation about linux,
> I'm not sure what this has to do with usability gnome org Please be
That is true.
>> A very good example of the bad community direction is, to name someone
>> again, Rahul. He always points you to your mistakes (fine in a way)
>> but never adds (not in my experience) something constructive or
>> helpful.... always a link to a wiki of somekind.
> Take that off list (at least for anything @gnome.org).
Also true but kinda hard when cross posting.
>> And for this entire issue where i made this thread for in the first
>> place. Don't expect me to be silent now. I will be vocal about this.
>> fedora has a "freedom" sign in it's logo so make that a reality!
> Suggest to be constructive. Just vocal won't be appreciated.
I have been constructive.
That didn't help much so time to put it in a higher gear.
> What helps: determine what usability thought was behind the spatial
> mode. Then perform multiple real usability studies to show that for an
> unbiased person spatial mode causes more problems than browser mode.
I think the most you could ask of me is what was done to get spatial
in it to begin with.
They didn't seem to conduct a study so i won't do that to revert there
change. Also to conduct a study takes weeks or months and by that time
this discussion is cooled down and put in the fridge. So your actually
asking me to spend months conducting a study to just be silent here.
And so if i did a study what then?
I did do a small one on google for the "new" (in 2004) spatial feature.
I didn't intent to post a bunch of links here but i will do so now.
(dutch and a lot are against spatial)
and more: http://www.google.nl/search?q=gnome+2.6+spatial&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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