java again really

[Steve Strong]

Les wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 10:58 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 07:01 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
>>     
>>> Knute Johnson wrote:
>>>       
>>>>> Knute Johnson wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>           
>>>>>> To install and run Sun Java on F8 look at the simplified instructions 
>>>>>> on this site;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://rabbitbrush.frazmtn.com/sun-java-on-F8.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need to remove anything before installing Sun Java.  JEdit 
>>>>>> should work with icedtea anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>             
>>>>>    Some of the things the page says are wrong. But it will be easy now 
>>>>> with sim links to use the right java and jedit will work. By the way, I 
>>>>> tried it with icedtea and it did not work at ALL!
>>>>>     
>>>>>           
>>>> What is wrong with the document?
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>         
>>> Funny you should ask :-)
>>>
>>> The document is good but it appears the two lib files are already on F8 
>>> and it leaves out the most important part. You need to use the new java 
>>> when you call java from a terminal. I got done with the document but 
>>> when I would type java -version I got the wimpy version Fedora sends.
>>>
>>>     So I looked at /usr/bin/java and it is linked to 
>>> /etc/alternatives/java. So I mv java old.java. Then link to the new java 
>>> with this:
>>>
>>> [root at k5di bin]# ln -s  /usr/java/default/bin/java /etc/alternatives/java
>>>
>>> The default/bin/java will be the latest one in the /usr/java/ directory.
>>>
>>>     With this addition my jedit was installed fast and it works right. I 
>>> needs to be added to the document.
>>>       
>> No, what needs to be added to the document is instructions on how to use
>> the alternatives facility to get these links set up properly.
>>
>> I can understand how Karl or anyone else might be led to fix these
>> things up by hand, as above, but it's better to use the tool designed
>> for the job.  But in order to do so, one needs to know what that tool
>> is.  It's not as common knowledge as it ought to be.
>>
>> man alternatives
>>
>>     
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> -- 
>>                 Matthew Saltzman
>>     
> Hi, Matthew,
> 	I have read the man page.  However, I am not sure this is simpler???
> It seems to be a tool to maintain dependency tracking for symbolic
> links.  The man page also repeatedly makes reference to Debian, which is
> an alternative Linux Distribution.  Given that a newbie, with some
> rudimentary knowledge (like myself or Karl) can manage symbolic links,
> and that we may or may not take on faith that a Debian tool will work
> with Fedora, how does this improve the situation?  I know that I can
> google this, but a link could be mentioned in the man page to assist
> with this.  In other words the tool is not yet ready for many if not
> most of us until either we improve our collective knowledge, or the
> tools documentation improves to help us find our way through a minefield
> of system affecting links and link modifiers.  Personally, I think such
> a tool doing a relatively complex task needs really good documentation
> about how to read its control script, and what each command does, and a
> good example showing the effects of those commands on software updates,
> software interactions (what if a shell is calling Jave.1.4 and you
> update to Java.1.5 for example).  And where the links are stored and how
> to back rev it when software has to be removed to restore system
> functionality.
>
> I know the current thrust is to automate all system administration
> tasks, but when it doesn't work, who can fix it if the "trail" is
> obscured, and the author(s) of the automatic tools is no longer
> available?
>
> Regards,
> Les H
>
>
>   
i just got into reading this thread and thought i'd throw in my 
experience (why not???)

we had a lot of problems with the default java install on FC7 and 8.  i 
have my kickstart file NOT install the default java package and instead 
install the latest rpm from Sun.  then, i added lines to my post-install 
that uses the alternatives command to make the Sun install the current 
best version.

i haven't seen any bugs with the Sun install (although i read with 
interest some reports of bugs in this thread) and i'm happy with the 
solution.

in general, i think it's a good idea to NOT rewrite a solution to a 
problem in someone else's code base, so i'm suspicious of fedora doing 
it's own java and like the idea of incorporating the Sun rpm's in the 
distribution.

steve

-- 
Steve Strong
Math and Computer Science
Washington High School
2205 Forest Dr. SE
Cedar Rapids, IA   52403

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