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Re: Package Manager Denies Permission to Install



Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 12:10 -0500, R. G. Newbury wrote:
>> Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta gmail com> wrote:
>>  > > Kevin Kofler <kevin kofler chello at> wrote:
>>  > > But PolicyKit does not work in a root session:
>>  > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=447266

>>  > Hmm...this is probably worthy of some nuanced and masterfully
>>  > persuasive oratory as to where to strike the balance between designing
>>  > for expected use cases and designing a system with flexibility to
>>  > accomedate local needs even when those use cases are not considered
>>  > best practises.  .

>> No nuanced and masterfully persuasive oratory can disguise the fact that 
>>    someone has made *and enforced* a decision that *they know better 
>> than the user* how "THINGS MUST BE DONE" purely because the doing, is 
>> considered to be 'not best practice'.

>> In this particular case, the 'best practice' enforcement approaches 
>> religious fervour in its application. In the particular instance which 
>> started this thread, PolicyKit nags about being root, and then *refuses* 
>> to allow the installation of an rpm! It does not deny the right to 
>> download and install the rpm in a console....It just denies the user the 
>> advantages of using PackageManager to resolve dependenices directly.

>> And *exactly* what nuanced extra is added to the equation, by forcing 
>> the administrator to log out of root, to log in as a user, to do the 
>> same thing? Especially in a circumstance where the install is actually 
>> desired to be general and not user-local? This position is idiocy.

>> I don't mind a nag. I DO mind unknown and unaccountable people 
>> attempting to enforce their quasi-religious beliefs on me (by 
>> quasi-religious, I mean the attitude which equates doing anything while 
>> root is akin to giving booze and car-keys to seventeen year old boys: 
>> instantly and always catastrophically dangerous.) I know using root can 
>> increase the probability of disaster. But I want to be able to decide 
>> what the limits of my risk tolerance are, not have someone else do it.

>> That argument, the libertarian argumnent is one of the underlying bases 
>> of the free software movement. Let's have it recognized and venerated in 
>> the code!

>> Geoff
> My memory is that the designer of PackageManager indicated on the list
> that running PackageManager as root has security problems that running
> it as a user and entering the root password does not have. I believed
> him. Your objection is that it makes you log as a user rather than as
> root. 

> I believe in the theory that "freedom" derives from the words free doom
> indicating that everyone has a right to commit suicide in his (or her)
> own way. I strongly support your committing suicide in any way you
> desire.


I said it on another list the other day. *If* this *really* bothers you
change it for heavens sake. And if you, the 'need to be root expert'
does not know *how* to change? What does that mean?

Well you should not be considered an expert.

I agree with Arron. Shoot yourself with this. Please. But don't expect
help with the wound(s).

-- 


  David


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