State of sound in Linux not so sorry after all

[Bill Davidsen]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Bill Davidsen<davidsen at tmr.com> wrote:
>> Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>>> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>>> I think "Pulse Audio Guru" is a symptom of the problem as users see it.
>>>> We don't *want* to be gurus, or more to the point don't want to *need*
>>>> to be a guru to use sound. End users should *not* have to load one or
>>>> two non-default "advanced mixers" just to turn up the volume of their
>>>> speakers high enough to hear. They should not be fiddling with the
>>>> pulse/alsa/advanced controls trying to find some combination which works
>>>> for input. Inserting modules with options should not be the way you
>>>> select audio options.
>>>>
>>> Speak for yourself, not for other people. I think I qualify as a
>>> "user", and I manage to use Pulse Audio. I kind of dought I am the
>>> only one using it. I have run into a problem once or twice, but I
>>> EXPECT to run into problems with Fedora once in a while. If I didn't
>>> want to deal with them, I would switch to a more stable distribution.
>>>
>>>> Under RH8 users could use audacity or the 'rec' part of sox to take
>>>> sound from mic or line input, set the sample rates, and write a wav
>>>> file. Under F11 I have yet (four systems) to find any one which will do
>>>> that, with any mix of interacting controls, with any application
>>>> including the "sound recorder" installed by default.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly in the rush to add fancy features for audiophiles the usability
>>>> of sound  has been devalued. Google for "sound problems + fedora" and
>>>> the volume of results for recent versions should convince you that there
>>>> is a usability problem. Sound should "just work" for the typical user,
>>>> and the people who want to do complex things should be using not complex
>>>> controls, not people who just want to hear sound.
>>>>
>>> Where do you think things like this should be experimented with? I
>>> thought Fedora was all about trying new things. Things that worked
>>> fine for the people running rawhide tend to break on some systems.
>>> The only way to find out is for a larger group to try it.
>>>
>>> When you are talking about "the typical user", are you talking about
>>> the typical computer user, the typical Linux user, or the typical
>>> Fedora user? Somehow, I don't think the typical Fedora user would be
>>> a typical user in the other two groups. ;-)
>>>
>> The user who wants to use the system without getting into source code. In my
>> case the user who has now tried FC11 on four systems which will record sound
>> and run sound apps using FC6, FC9, and/or FC10. And asking in various places
>> gets told "it's your hardware, not Fedora compliant" or "it works for me"
>> but never a hint why it stopped working, stopped being compliant, or why
>> someone who can make other distros work can find no way to get any line or
>> mic input connected to any recording or playing application.
>>
>> The obvious explanation is that something is broken in FC11 which causes
>> failure on many types of hardware (not all).
>>
>>> With Fedora's short release and support cycle, I can not picture
>>> recommending it to someone that does not like to "tinker". Then
>>> again, I could not see myself running something like Mandriva on
>>> this machine...
>>>
>> There is nothing to tinker *with*, if it doesn't work the alternative is do
>> without sound input or use something else for a distro, since the real
>> problem is that people pretend there is no problem, documentation is not
>> needed, etc.
>>
>> In previous releases I was able to select modes, mono, 2-ch, 4-ch, or 5.1,
>> and on some system 7.1 and "surround" as well. None of the tools seem to
>> offer those choices any more, and I can believe that the issue is that all
>> the inputs have been made outputs by forcing 5.1 or 7.1. I just don't have
>> any way to change that other than reinstalling an old release.
> 
> 
> Have you tried simply removing PulseAudio?
> 
Did on one machine, still don't have access to set the modes between 2-ch, 4-ch, 
5.1, etc. That may be a symptom rather than a cause, of course.

Having five interacting ways to diddle sound is insane, pulse was a good idea, 
but not as an add-on.


-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen at tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot