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Re: NM: the usual rant

I agree that whatever a process can send to a system log, for purposes
of error output, the better. If a URL could be supplied by a log message
pointing to a resource that can help explain the meaning of the exact
error code, that would be a great help too, because it saves the
technician's time in tracking down the error.

Speaking as someone who fixes other people's computers for money,  I
wish that "regular users" of every flavor would get accustomed to
looking at log messages. Or at least email them to me on request. Doing
so could save both of us a lot of time and money. I wouldn't have to
charge so much, and my time is conserved for focusing on the really
tough issues.

I don't really draw any line between a "regular user" and someone with
perhaps additional skills or training. In real life, working with real
customers, I've seen a lot of variation here. Some customers have great
technical skills,  some don't. Some have a lot of smarts and can be
coached to find and email a resource to me. Some are driven by time
constraints that have to be appreciated and understood by technicians
like me. Most are a lot smarter than they seem. What they have in common
is a problem they all want fixed quickly and quietly. If that person can
sift through log messages, and email them to me it helps a lot.

So the more log output pertinent to an error, the better.

By the way my Network Manager implementation works okay with my wireless
hardware. I've discovered that it needs an amazingly long time to build
a connection to the access point -- I think there is some sort of timing
issue with it. But generally within 3-5 minutes of my logging on to my
user account, the machine does connect to the access point. I just get a
few more gray hairs waiting for this to happen.


Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> Marc Wilson wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 10:54:17PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>>> This is debugging output intended for wireless driver developers only, you
>>> are not expected to understand it.
>> Then it shouldn't be outputting it, unless it's asked for.
> That's a ridiculous statement. /var/log/messages is not something
> regular users are supposed to be looking at constantly.  In normal use,
> messages get printed there and ignored.  That's okay.
> However, when an error occurs, it is vital the user be able to go to the
> logs and copy relevant information.  Having a "enable output to
> /var/log" option would make it very hard to find intermittent errors.
> If you're an ordinary user and don't plan to file a bug report, just
> ignore the logs and go on your way.
> Matt Flaschen

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