output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ?

Tue Apr 18 13:47:46 UTC 2006

> While the fedora trademark guidelines seem quite explicit that redhat has no
> intention to answer questions on the matter, you seem willing, so here is one-

I sat down and read the docs carefully. Here are my views on the matter:

> For the purposes of the following citation, are fedora logos considered
> "Redhat's trademarks"?  Or are they trademarks that belong to a foundation that
> until very recently was entirely seperate from redhat, yet whose trademark
> guidelines seem intertwined with redhats (i.e. yeah, I'm a bit confused)
>

Red Hat does not like that a _project_ that it is not sponsoring, use
its name or trademarks for the mere simple reason that :

if the _project_ use the Red Hat trademarks, it would give the
impressions that Red Hat is affiliate to this project, which is not
the case.

This _project_ might also not follow his principles.

E.g If I create a livecd with nvidia drivers with Kadischi, Ill break
the Fedora Policies.

> "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any manner
> that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship
> by Red Hat"
>
> The root of the issue is-
>
> If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using the
> default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and
> gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to cause
> confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"?
>
> Now mind you, from the rest of the page that contained that quote, the
> implication is that redhat will not answer any questions or make the issue any
> clearer.  But if you want to give it a shot Chitlesh, I'm all ears and I'd be
> grateful.
>
> -jdog
>
> >
> > If you are having problem understanding a kadischi related wiki page,
> > then maybe somebody else will too. So let's work together and reduce
> > confusion.
> >
> > Chitlesh
> >
> > On 4/17/06, Jane Dogalt <jdogalt at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > --- Jane Dogalt <jdogalt at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH <chitlesh at fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal
> > > >
> > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone
> > (Chris)
> > > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate
> > that
> > > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question.
> > >
> > > Ok.  I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that
> > the
> > > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem".
> > >
> > > And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark
> > > guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 years, I
> > > think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem".
> > >
> > > My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as
> > well,
> > > stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the
> > > _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative
> > > distribution.  In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files
> > would
> > > make something unredistributable.  Perhaps this was never the case.
> > Certainly
> > > judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and the
> > > following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are
> > > absolutely not a problem-
> > >
> > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any
> > manner
> > > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or
> > sponsorship
> > > by Red Hat."
> > >
> > > Although the more specific question is-  If people see a fedora logo on a
> > gdm
> > > login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would that
> > "be
> > > likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by
> > Red
> > > Hat"?
> > >
> > > For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project to
> > have a
> > > post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that
> > users
> > > of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair.
> > >
> > > -jdog
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very
> > > > simple,
> > > > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora.  Can you please
> > > > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e.
> > > >
> > > > Question:  If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi
> > (say
> > > > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that
> > adds
> > > > a
> > > > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that
> > on
> > > > my
> > > > own website for mass distribution under the title
> > > > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"?
> > > >
> > > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be
> > > > installed.  Is that a problem?  If so would simply removing that rpm in a
> > > > post
> > > > install script resolve the distribution problem?
> > > >
> > > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that.  And I
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you
> > > > referenced.
> > > >
> > > > -jdog
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus <cnegus at rucls.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote:
> > > > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote:
> > > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create
> > LiveCD
> > > > > > > media..
> > > > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running
> > > > > > > Anaconda in Debian
> > > > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing
> > any
> > > > > > > efforts on running Kadischi
> > > > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect,
> > Kadischi
> > > > > > > shouldn't be focusing
> > > > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD
> > > > tool
> > > > > > > not a distribution tool.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still
> > hasn't,
> > > > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and
> > trademarks.
> > > > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two
> > > > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build
> > their
> > > > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone
> > legally
> > > > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash
> > > > > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still
> > > > > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Chris Negus
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
> > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com
> > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
> > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com
> > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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