From rc040203 at freenet.de Sat Sep 1 05:10:19 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:10:19 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" Message-ID: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Hi, I am facing a problem with bodhi's usability: The problem: I have rebuilt a larger number packages for fc7 and want to push them as updates. The current "new package" field however requires maintainers to remember all package details of package they might have pending. I.e. unless a maintainer carefully keeps book of koji-builds, he will loose oversight. Also, the "package name expansion magic" currently being used doesn't help me much. It almost never returns results suitable for me (most of my rebuilt packages are perl modules. Inserting "perl" or "perl-*" doesn't help at all). Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? Ralf From jamatos at fc.up.pt Sat Sep 1 07:33:13 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?utf-8?q?Jos=C3=A9_Matos?=) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:33:13 +0100 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? > > Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which > contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? +1 This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This would be even better. > Ralf -- Jos? Ab?lio From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Sat Sep 1 08:30:17 2007 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:30:17 +0200 Subject: tor security updates In-Reply-To: <20070830195941.GE2944@crow.myhome.westell.com> (Luke Macken's message of "Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:59:41 -0400") References: <20070818190820.GB18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070818212257.90333b25.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20070818193636.GC18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070819111235.096e8a2c.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <87y7g0hsu3.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> <20070830195941.GE2944@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> Luke Macken writes: > Hrm? Bodhi should be able to work fine without javascript. It only > uses it for some shiny stuffy, such as the auto-completion list, and > some menus. The *icon* to the right of the package name is not a > button, it's a spinner that becomes active when it is building the > list of builds after typing in the name of a package. If you don't > have javascript enabled, then simply type the full name of the build > in the package field. ??? What have I to enter in the "Package" field? The name of the package (rpm -qf '%{NAME}') or the name of the build (full NEVR)? Named auto-completion does not seem to work (javascript is enabled). E.g. 't' moves to "Release:" field, but does not do anything with the spinner or fills. Why have I to create this update request manually at all? As it seems, it is just a corpse in a database and does not hit any repository. It can be created automatically by koji when build succeeded. Currently, I have to remember every succeeded build. > Only the submitter of each update (or releng) will have the ability to > perform actions against an update, aside from commenting. Then, something seems to be wrong with my acls; I can only add comments. Enrico -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jamatos at fc.up.pt Sat Sep 1 09:00:30 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?utf-8?q?Jos=C3=A9_Matos?=) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:00:30 +0100 Subject: tor security updates In-Reply-To: <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> References: <20070818190820.GB18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070830195941.GE2944@crow.myhome.westell.com> <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> Message-ID: <200709011000.30772.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Saturday 01 September 2007 09:30:17 Enrico Scholz wrote: > Luke Macken writes: > > Hrm? Bodhi should be able to work fine without javascript. It only > > uses it for some shiny stuffy, such as the auto-completion list, and > > some menus. The *icon* to the right of the package name is not a > > button, it's a spinner that becomes active when it is building the > > list of builds after typing in the name of a package. If you don't > > have javascript enabled, then simply type the full name of the build > > in the package field. > > ??? What have I to enter in the "Package" field? The name of the package > (rpm -qf '%{NAME}') or the name of the build (full NEVR)? Full nevr. > Named auto-completion does not seem to work (javascript is enabled). > E.g. 't' moves to "Release:" field, but does not do anything with > the spinner or fills. I only see results when I have most of the name completed. > Enrico -- Jos? Ab?lio From bugs.michael at gmx.net Sat Sep 1 09:39:29 2007 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:39:29 +0200 Subject: tor security updates In-Reply-To: <200709011000.30772.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <20070818190820.GB18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070830195941.GE2944@crow.myhome.westell.com> <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> <200709011000.30772.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <20070901113929.edb073fa.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:00:30 +0100, Jos? Matos wrote: > > > Hrm? Bodhi should be able to work fine without javascript. It only > > > uses it for some shiny stuffy, such as the auto-completion list, and > > > some menus. The *icon* to the right of the package name is not a > > > button, it's a spinner that becomes active when it is building the > > > list of builds after typing in the name of a package. If you don't > > > have javascript enabled, then simply type the full name of the build > > > in the package field. > > > > ??? What have I to enter in the "Package" field? The name of the package > > (rpm -qf '%{NAME}') or the name of the build (full NEVR)? > > Full nevr. src.rpm %{name} should suffice, because then the spinner gets active and you can choose from the available builds in the list-box. From tla at rasmil.dk Sat Sep 1 10:48:48 2007 From: tla at rasmil.dk (Tim Lauridsen) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:48:48 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> Jos? Matos wrote: > On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >> Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? >> >> Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which >> contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? >> > > +1 > > This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This would be even > better. > > >> Ralf >> > > What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a uddate i body. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sat Sep 1 15:09:22 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:09:22 -0500 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> Message-ID: <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> Tim Lauridsen wrote: > Jos? Matos wrote: >> On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> >>> Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? >>> >>> Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which >>> contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? >>> >> >> +1 >> >> This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This would >> be even better. >> >> >>> Ralf >>> >> >> > What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a > uddate i body. > You guys all know better then to post this to the list - https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ -Mike From opensource at till.name Sat Sep 1 16:52:36 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:52:36 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200709011852.45310.opensource@till.name> On Saturday 01 September 2007 17:09:22 Mike McGrath wrote: > Tim Lauridsen wrote: > > What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a > > uddate i body. > > You guys all know better then to post this to the list - > > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ Three monts too late: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ticket/36 Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From wolters.liste at gmx.net Sun Sep 2 00:56:28 2007 From: wolters.liste at gmx.net (Roland Wolters) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 02:56:28 +0200 Subject: Wiki discussions In-Reply-To: <1188416987.27085.158.camel@cutter> References: <200708292145.38028.wolters.liste@gmx.net> <1188416987.27085.158.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <200709020256.33755.wolters.liste@gmx.net> Once upon a time seth vidal wrote: > On Wed, 2007-08-29 at 21:45 +0200, Roland Wolters wrote: > > where is the appropriate place to discuss pages in the wiki? I often come > > across pages where I miss important information or where I would like to > > mention an issue or two and I always fail to do so due to the fact that > > there is no separate discussion page (as for example the MediaWiki engine > > provides). > > However, with the current Wiki configuration (and as someone who is used > > to MediaWiki I already have enough problems with MoinMoin-like Wikis) > > this is not possible. So what to do? > > It's possible to add discussion pages to a moin page. There's even a faq > about it at moin. Check it out. > Actually the FAQ says that there is no easy way [1], at least compared to other wiki engines like MediaWiki. You can create templates or modify the source code, and of course you can create extra links. But that was definitely not what I was looking for. Still, thanks for the answer. Roland [1] http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinQuestions#head-2dbcebd0bb6fb8205a3ede0950058fb60129ddd4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Sun Sep 2 03:55:37 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:55:37 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 10:09 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > Tim Lauridsen wrote: > > Jos? Matos wrote: > >> On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >> > >>> Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? > >>> > >>> Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which > >>> contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? > >>> > >> > >> +1 > >> > >> This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This would > >> be even better. > >> > >> > >>> Ralf > >>> > >> > >> > > What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a > > uddate i body. > > > > You guys all know better then to post this to the list - > > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( Ralf From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Sep 2 05:17:31 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:17:31 -0500 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 10:09 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Tim Lauridsen wrote: >> >>> Jos? Matos wrote: >>> >>>> On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? >>>>> >>>>> Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which >>>>> contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This would >>>> be even better. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ralf >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a >>> uddate i body. >>> >>> >> You guys all know better then to post this to the list - >> >> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ >> > And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? > > You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency > for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this > matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( > http://docs.python.org/ then http://turbogears.org/ then https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/browser increasing pressure does nothing to people who don't have enough time and resources to get their current stuff done. I can't emphasize enough how much we need more people looking at the code we're running and doing work on it. You can complain all you want but right now Luke is pretty much the only guy working on Bodhi. There's only a handful of people doing 99% of the coding for Koji, Plague, pkgdb, bodhi, and mirrormanager. I don't think anyone disagrees that all of these tools can use some polish but mindless comments on the mailing list don't help anyone. Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see it through until it gets closed. -Mike From rc040203 at freenet.de Sun Sep 2 05:53:20 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 07:53:20 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1188712400.20314.61.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 00:17 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see it > through until it gets closed. Pardon? I don't want bodhi, nor am I interested in developing on bodhi or do I have any time left to getting involved to. Whether you like it or not, it's Fedora's management who is forcing us volunteers to use it. Ralf From tla at rasmil.dk Sun Sep 2 06:52:42 2007 From: tla at rasmil.dk (Tim Lauridsen) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 08:52:42 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> Mike McGrath wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 10:09 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >> >>> Tim Lauridsen wrote: >>> >>>> Jos? Matos wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Saturday 01 September 2007 06:10:19 Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new >>>>>> updates"? >>>>>> >>>>>> Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which >>>>>> contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? >>>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> This could have some kind of filter, like the release. This >>>>> would be even better. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ralf >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package >>>> as a uddate i body. >>>> >>>> >>> You guys all know better then to post this to the list - >>> >>> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ >>> >> And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? >> >> You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency >> for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this >> matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( >> > > http://docs.python.org/ > then > http://turbogears.org/ > then > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/browser > > increasing pressure does nothing to people who don't have enough time > and resources to get their current stuff done. I can't emphasize > enough how much we need more people looking at the code we're running > and doing work on it. You can complain all you want but right now > Luke is pretty much the only guy working on Bodhi. There's only a > handful of people doing 99% of the coding for Koji, Plague, pkgdb, > bodhi, and mirrormanager. I don't think anyone disagrees that all of > these tools can use some polish but mindless comments on the mailing > list don't help anyone. > Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see > it through until it gets closed. > > -Mike I agree, discussing how to make the tools better is a good idea, but contribution is much better, I think Luke has done a great job with bodhi, there is always place for improvement, but flaming don't help anybody. Keep up the good work !!!!! Tim From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Sep 2 07:56:43 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:56:43 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> Message-ID: <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> On 02.09.2007 08:52, Tim Lauridsen wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 10:09 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >>>> Tim Lauridsen wrote: >>>> You guys all know better then to post this to the list - >>>> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ >>> And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? >>> You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency >>> for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this >>> matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( >>> >> http://docs.python.org/ >> then >> http://turbogears.org/ >> then >> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/browser >> >> increasing pressure does nothing to people who don't have enough time >> and resources to get their current stuff done. I can't emphasize >> enough how much we need more people looking at the code we're running >> and doing work on it. You can complain all you want but right now >> Luke is pretty much the only guy working on Bodhi. There's only a >> handful of people doing 99% of the coding for Koji, Plague, pkgdb, >> bodhi, and mirrormanager. I don't think anyone disagrees that all of >> these tools can use some polish but mindless comments on the mailing >> list don't help anyone. >> Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see >> it through until it gets closed. > I agree, discussing how to make the tools better is a good idea, but > contribution is much better, I think Luke has done a great job with > bodhi, there is always place for improvement, but flaming don't help > anybody. +1 for Lukes work; good stuff. But I really dislike Mike's comment. The whole situation feels a bit like working for a charity organization in your spare time -- for fun and because you like it. But then the professional part of that organization and the up-to-then independent part that took care of the spare-time-contributors merge into one because it has many benefits for both sides. But during that merge suddenly your work as spare-time-contributor becomes much harder, because the professional part now forces you to do way more paperwork then before. That's frustrating and hindering your workflow -- you are not that effective as before and the paperwork is boring. Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at that point, because I did and do good work in my spare time for one part of the whole organization, but some people that are responsible for another part made it my workflow much harder; and not even that, they even tell me now *I* should invest days of my rare spare time to make myself familiar with and area I might have no real interest in. IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should not risk to loose or burn them. CU knurd From rc040203 at freenet.de Sun Sep 2 08:29:47 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 10:29:47 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 09:56 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please > so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, > but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike > that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better > yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some > days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will > be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar > with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at > that point, Pretty nicely summarized, how I feel about many of the developments wrt. Fedora since the merger ;) Wrt. my request, I feel bodhi is lacking an essential key-feature, without which efficient and reliable usage of bodhi is impossible. The actual problem can be summarized in one simple sentence: Where/how to find "my built, but yet not released packages in bodhi"? Ralf From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Sep 2 14:40:42 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:40:42 -0500 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 02.09.2007 08:52, Tim Lauridsen wrote: > >> Mike McGrath wrote: >> >>> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 10:09 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tim Lauridsen wrote: >>>>> You guys all know better then to post this to the list - >>>>> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ >>>>> >>>> And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? >>>> You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency >>>> for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this >>>> matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( >>>> >>>> >>> http://docs.python.org/ >>> then >>> http://turbogears.org/ >>> then >>> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/browser >>> >>> increasing pressure does nothing to people who don't have enough time >>> and resources to get their current stuff done. I can't emphasize >>> enough how much we need more people looking at the code we're running >>> and doing work on it. You can complain all you want but right now >>> Luke is pretty much the only guy working on Bodhi. There's only a >>> handful of people doing 99% of the coding for Koji, Plague, pkgdb, >>> bodhi, and mirrormanager. I don't think anyone disagrees that all of >>> these tools can use some polish but mindless comments on the mailing >>> list don't help anyone. >>> Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see >>> it through until it gets closed. >>> >> I agree, discussing how to make the tools better is a good idea, but >> contribution is much better, I think Luke has done a great job with >> bodhi, there is always place for improvement, but flaming don't help >> anybody. >> > > +1 for Lukes work; good stuff. > > But I really dislike Mike's comment. > > I'm literally asking people for help. I'm saying we don't have enough man power to make the tools work the way you want to. And you're saying you "dislike it"? How do you think the we feel about it? > The whole situation feels a bit like working for a charity organization > in your spare time -- for fun and because you like it. But then the > professional part of that organization and the up-to-then independent > part that took care of the spare-time-contributors merge into one > because it has many benefits for both sides. But during that merge > suddenly your work as spare-time-contributor becomes much harder, > because the professional part now forces you to do way more paperwork > then before. That's frustrating and hindering your workflow -- you are > not that effective as before and the paperwork is boring. > > Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please > so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, > but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike > that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better > yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some > days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will > be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar > with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at > that point, because I did and do good work in my spare time for one part > of the whole organization, but some people that are responsible for > another part made it my workflow much harder; and not even that, they > even tell me now *I* should invest days of my rare spare time to make > myself familiar with and area I might have no real interest in. > I'm not saying you or ralf or anyone in particular has to learn python and help out but out of the 1,300 or so people with the CLA signed I could count the number of people helping with bodhi and pkgdb on one hand. In infrastructure especially we work extra hard to make sure the distinction between volunteers and non volunteers is as minimal as possible and I think we do a good job of it. We repeatedly ask for help from people and only a few people actually step up to actually do anything. This stuff is really really hard and complaining about it just doesn't help, you can pretend it does, you can continue to email negative comments to the lists but at the end of that day it doesn't do anyone any good and it saddens me to no end. > IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for > putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react > quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as > effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they > are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should > not risk to loose or burn them. Keep in mind that very few people with the @redhat.com address actually get paid full time to work on Fedora. Many of them do it just like you do in their spare time. Please help! I'm on my knees begging anyone with python experience. Help us volunteers help us! You're our only hope! -Mike From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Sep 2 14:46:06 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 10:46:06 -0400 Subject: tor security updates In-Reply-To: <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> References: <20070818190820.GB18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070818212257.90333b25.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <20070818193636.GC18032@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <20070819111235.096e8a2c.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <87y7g0hsu3.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> <20070830195941.GE2944@crow.myhome.westell.com> <87myw6ss86.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> Message-ID: <20070902104606.27ab5694@ender> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:30:17 +0200 Enrico Scholz wrote: > Why have I to create this update request manually at all? As it seems, > it is just a corpse in a database and does not hit any repository. It > can be created automatically by koji when build succeeded. > Currently, I have to remember every succeeded build. Right now, koji does not talk directly to bodhi. Rather it's the other way around, once a build n-v-r is known. In order to get that n-v-r, we right now take the base of the name you provide and do a directory listing on the koji package store to show you possible completions. Yes, this is inefficient, but it was something that would "work" right now while longer term efforts were put into a more direct link between bodhi and koji. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Sep 2 15:54:39 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:54:39 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> On 02.09.2007 16:40, Mike McGrath wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> On 02.09.2007 08:52, Tim Lauridsen wrote: >>> Mike McGrath wrote: > >> But I really dislike Mike's comment. > I'm literally asking people for help. Which is fine as such, but the way you did IMHO wasn't the best. > I'm saying we don't have enough > man power to make the tools work the way you want to. Then the tools maybe shouldn't have been put in place baack then *or* the people that put them in place (that's neither you or Luke; probably more rel-eng or the Board) should free resources and assign man-power to keep contributors happy. > [...] >> The whole situation feels a bit like working for a charity organization >> in your spare time -- for fun and because you like it. But then the >> professional part of that organization and the up-to-then independent >> part that took care of the spare-time-contributors merge into one >> because it has many benefits for both sides. But during that merge >> suddenly your work as spare-time-contributor becomes much harder, >> because the professional part now forces you to do way more paperwork >> then before. That's frustrating and hindering your workflow -- you are >> not that effective as before and the paperwork is boring. >> >> Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please >> so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, >> but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike >> that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better >> yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some >> days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will >> be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar >> with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at >> that point, because I did and do good work in my spare time for one part >> of the whole organization, but some people that are responsible for >> another part made it my workflow much harder; and not even that, they >> even tell me now *I* should invest days of my rare spare time to make >> myself familiar with and area I might have no real interest in. > > I'm not saying you or ralf or anyone in particular has to learn python > and help out Well, it sounded like it to me due to those links your gave and the "Those of you wanting something done, create and own a ticket and see it through until it gets closed." sentence. Seems Ralf got the similar impression. > but out of the 1,300 or so people with the CLA signed I > could count the number of people helping with bodhi and pkgdb on one > hand. In infrastructure especially we work extra hard to make sure the > distinction between volunteers and non volunteers is as minimal as > possible and I think we do a good job of it. Which is a good thing and it seems to work well. I think for the issue at hand it also not "volunteers" vs. "non volunteers" -- it's just that those that forced bodhi on all of us (including non-volunteers) are by accident afaics those that are payed for their work. > We repeatedly ask for help > from people and only a few people actually step up to actually do > anything. This stuff is really really hard and complaining about it > just doesn't help, you can pretend it does, you can continue to email > negative comments to the lists but at the end of that day it doesn't do > anyone any good and it saddens me to no end. Well, sure, it doesn't help, but it shows how frustrated at least some people are, because they wouldn't invest the time in writing those mails otherwise. > [...] > Please help! I'm on my knees begging anyone with python experience. > Help us volunteers help us! You're our only hope! +1 (from someone that ever wanted to learn python, but never found time for more then baby steps due to other work for Fedora) Cu knurd From opensource at till.name Sun Sep 2 16:25:51 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 18:25:51 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200709021825.59528.opensource@till.name> On Sunday 02 September 2007 16:40:42 Mike McGrath wrote: > I'm literally asking people for help. I'm saying we don't have enough > man power to make the tools work the way you want to. And you're saying > you "dislike it"? How do you think the we feel about it? > Keep in mind that very few people with the @redhat.com address actually > get paid full time to work on Fedora. Many of them do it just like you > do in their spare time. > > Please help! I'm on my knees begging anyone with python experience. > Help us volunteers help us! You're our only hope! What can one really do? I submitted a patch[1] for a big annoyance in Koji: build logs are not easily accessible. The patch is now 3 months old and got applied recently to the internal repository but it is still not in the deployed Koji. This is very depressing, especially because I needed access to build logs a dozend times since then. This not only affects koji, but also bodhi where I provided several simple patches that are still not available in the deployed version. Same for Makefile.common, where there was only little Feedback. Also the documentation in and about koji and bodhi is not very good, which makes providing patches even harder. So it seems the only way to really change something here is to get commit access to the projects and access to the deployment servers, but this is imho a pretty high barrier. Regards, Till [1] https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/koji/ticket/10 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sun Sep 2 17:04:48 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:04:48 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> Hi all, Just adding my 2 cents to this thread, a bit late in the game I admit, but I try to stay out of discussions as much as possible and instead do something productive. Note the is not intended as oil on the fire, as said its just my 2 cents. As a contributer with lots of packages (the counter has hit 150 now) I quite regulary push updates and I must say bodhi's current usuability is barely acceptable. What ever happened to the promised "make updates[-testing]"? Also and maybe even more so I find the speed at which requested updates get pushed unacceptable. Take this one for example: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F7/id3lib-3.8.3-17.fc7 3 days and 6 hours! And that was a security update! Or this one, which got requested 2 days ago, and still isn't pushed: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/pending/F7/vavoom-1.24-3.fc7 Again a security update! This long delay also is _very_ frustrating when adding new packages and making sure there is a clean upgrade path all the time. This used to be: [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc7.src.rpm [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel [hans at ... devel] make build [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-5 [hans at ... devel] cd ../FC-6 [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build [hans at ... FC-6] cd ../FC-5 [hans at ... FC-5] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build Now it is [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc8.src.rpm [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel [hans at ... devel] make build [hans at ... devel] cp * ../F-7 [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 [hans at ... devel] cd ../F-7 [hans at ... F-7] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build [hans at ... F-7] cd ../FC-6 [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag [hans at ... FC-6] make build There have been times when I send myself reminder mails telling myself which packages still need building for FC-6 ! As I write this down, I realize how much this has frustrated me lately, because I know everyone involved has been doing his best, I've kept quiet so far. But now we are discussing this ... To be frank this just plain sucks! One of the _great_ powers of extras use to be the ease with which new packages could be added and now its a royal pain in the butt. I've considered only adding new packages to rawhide, but do we really want to go there? In the vast majority new packages will have zero ZERO _zero_ interaction with other packages, as in influencing from the new to the old. So the chance for regressions is also usually close to zero. Thus making new packages available for current releases is a service and should be easily doable! Regards, Hans From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Sep 2 17:27:51 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:27:51 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <20070902132751.0663cfdb@ender> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:04:48 +0200 Hans de Goede wrote: > Also and maybe even more so I find the speed at which requested > updates get pushed unacceptable. Take this one for example: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F7/id3lib-3.8.3-17.fc7 > > 3 days and 6 hours! And that was a security update! That blame lies on me. Since all packages are now signed with the Fedora key, we do not want to share that key with any more people than we already have. Instead we would like to create a signing server that would allow us to grant accounts permission to use a key without them having to know the key passphrase. This will open up updates pushing to more than just me, and when that happens things can get pushed faster. Although once we hook up some sort of dep checker to the process you'll likely not get more than one push per day as it is extremely lengthy to generate a multilib set with the potential updates and then check the deps across our now huge package set. Suffice to say that once a day pushes may be a reasonable expectation. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sun Sep 2 18:18:51 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:18:51 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <20070902132751.0663cfdb@ender> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> <20070902132751.0663cfdb@ender> Message-ID: <46DAFE8B.9000100@hhs.nl> Jesse Keating wrote: > This will open up updates pushing > to more than just me, and when that happens things can get pushed > faster. Although once we hook up some sort of dep checker to the > process you'll likely not get more than one push per day as it is > extremely lengthy to generate a multilib set with the potential updates > and then check the deps across our now huge package set. Suffice to > say that once a day pushes may be a reasonable expectation. > Erm, isn't the repoclosure script capable of checking acros miltiple repos? Then it would simply be a matter of building a small temp repo of proposed updates and then run repo closure on release + updates + proposed updates. Then we don't have to generate / compose the set. I imagine repoclusure itself will take quite a while too, but this way atleast things are easier. Another solution would be a chroot with an install everything install and run yum update in there with the proposed updates repo enabled, then one can automatically test for problems in a quite quick way. Regards, Hans From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Sep 2 18:25:26 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 14:25:26 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DAFE8B.9000100@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> <20070902132751.0663cfdb@ender> <46DAFE8B.9000100@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <20070902142526.02dd82d7@ender> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:18:51 +0200 Hans de Goede wrote: > Erm, isn't the repoclosure script capable of checking acros miltiple > repos? Then it would simply be a matter of building a small temp repo > of proposed updates and then run repo closure on release + updates + > proposed updates. Then we don't have to generate / compose the set. I > imagine repoclusure itself will take quite a while too, but this way > atleast things are easier. Except you have to figure out what if your proposed updates need to be multilib, and you can't just rely upon what was multilib before as it's all dependency based and your new updates may change some of those dependencies. So you have to do a full compose with the new proposed updates, make them multilib, and then depsolve. > Another solution would be a chroot with an install everything install > and run yum update in there with the proposed updates repo enabled, > then one can automatically test for problems in a quite quick way. You still have the problem of generating which of your newly proposed updates need to be multilib, and that requires depsolving across the entire set. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 18:44:01 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:44:01 -0700 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <200709021825.59528.opensource@till.name> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DACB6A.8090300@redhat.com> <200709021825.59528.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <46DB0471.4040404@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Till Maas wrote: > On Sunday 02 September 2007 16:40:42 Mike McGrath wrote: > >> I'm literally asking people for help. I'm saying we don't have enough >> man power to make the tools work the way you want to. And you're saying >> you "dislike it"? How do you think the we feel about it? > >> Keep in mind that very few people with the @redhat.com address actually >> get paid full time to work on Fedora. Many of them do it just like you >> do in their spare time. >> >> Please help! I'm on my knees begging anyone with python experience. >> Help us volunteers help us! You're our only hope! > > What can one really do? I submitted a patch[1] for a big annoyance in Koji: > build logs are not easily accessible. The patch is now 3 months old and got > applied recently to the internal repository but it is still not in the > deployed Koji. This is very depressing, especially because I needed access to > build logs a dozend times since then. This not only affects koji, but also > bodhi where I provided several simple patches that are still not available in > the deployed version. Same for Makefile.common, where there was only little > Feedback. Also the documentation in and about koji and bodhi is not very > good, which makes providing patches even harder. > > So it seems the only way to really change something here is to get commit > access to the projects and access to the deployment servers, but this is imho > a pretty high barrier. > Depends on what you want to do and what projects you want to work on. For people who want to code on the packagedb, I've been setting up test instances on publictest1.f.r.c and giving the contributor access to a branch. When they have something that works, I can easily check both their changes at a code level by diffing the branch and at the "view what their changes do" level via the test instance. It's then easy to merge their changes or give feedback about what I'd like to see developed more. This is how both the new packagedb template (thanks to ricky) and user pages (thanks to nigelj) were developed. There's other things that could be done by people who don't want to code. For instance, I could use someone to help out with releases. This could be as simple as me deciding when a release needs to be made and the other person creating an rpm to distribute to the app servers. Or if the person has more time, they could have a stable branch and they could pull changes from the development branch(es) of features that they think are stable enough. I don't know if the koji hackers (mbonnet is my main point of contact) or bodhi hacker (lmacken) have thought about ways that they could divide up the many tasks that they have to do to go from identifying problems (tickets really help here) to implementing solutions (designing and coding) to getting a new version out with the fix in place (updating a stable branch, making a release, getting the release into infrastructure) but if you ask I'll bet they could identify some areas that they need help with. - -Toshio -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG2wRxX6yAic2E7kgRAoA/AJ0duQ8KuTx5eHYvJgYcHLj/fjI4UwCgjne6 I+FuNpCaq9jYKncOYVW97p8= =StPJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jorton at redhat.com Mon Sep 3 08:42:18 2007 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:42:18 +0100 Subject: APR 32-bit API/ABI break in dist-f8 Message-ID: <20070903084218.GA18989@redhat.com> The apr-1.2.9-2 build on 32-bit platforms dropped LFS support and silently broke API and ABI. This was due to a bug in the configure script where open() was called incorrectly when attempting to detect LFS capabilities, which started failing with the new glibc. You are CC'ed on this mail if your package was built against a broken APR, either directly or indirectly via httpd or subversion, and needs to be rebuilt: mod_dnssd-0.5-4.fc8.src.rpm:Tue Aug 21 18:20:20 2007 mod_evasive-1.10.1-4.fc8.src.rpm:Wed Aug 29 06:05:03 2007 mod_auth_pam-1.1.1-4.fc8.src.rpm:Wed Aug 29 06:38:41 2007 mod_auth_ntlm_winbind-0.0.0-0.6.20070129svn713.fc8.src.rpm:Wed Aug 29 19:39:46 2007 kdevelop-3.4.1-4.fc8.src.rpm:Thu Aug 30 00:39:38 2007 The following have either been rebuilt, or are being rebuilt: mod_python-3.3.1-4.src.rpm:Tue Aug 21 12:34:45 2007 apr-1.2.9-2.src.rpm:Tue Aug 21 12:39:00 2007 mod_auth_pgsql-2.0.3-5.src.rpm:Tue Aug 21 13:54:32 2007 apr-util-1.2.8-11.src.rpm:Wed Aug 22 23:05:29 2007 httpd-2.2.4-9.src.rpm:Thu Aug 23 00:46:16 2007 mod_perl-2.0.3-12.src.rpm:Thu Aug 23 09:04:14 2007 subversion-1.4.4-5.src.rpm:Thu Aug 23 10:05:22 2007 mod_fcgid-2.1-5.fc8.src.rpm:Thu Aug 23 10:48:54 2007 rapidsvn-0.9.4-5.fc8.src.rpm:Thu Aug 23 15:41:05 2007 php-5.2.3-8.src.rpm:Tue Aug 28 20:46:11 2007 libapreq2-2.09-0.rc2.6.fc8.src.rpm:Tue Aug 28 23:16:44 2007 mod_security-2.1.1-2.fc8.src.rpm:Wed Aug 29 07:33:25 2007 kdesvn-0.13.0-3.fc8.src.rpm:Tue Aug 28 15:26:49 2007 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 14:40:15 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:10:15 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for > putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react > quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as > effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they > are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should > not risk to loose or burn them. This distinction is false. Luke worked on Bodhi voluntarily too. Very few people are working on Fedora full time. Rahul From eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr Mon Sep 3 18:15:18 2007 From: eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr (Tanguy Eric) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:15:18 +0200 Subject: tar problem Message-ID: <1188843318.2952.6.camel@bureau.maison> I can't understand why when i try to compile with mock (using devel repo) i obtain this error : Building target platforms: i386 Building for target i386 Executing(%prep): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.76182 + umask 022 + cd /builddir/build/BUILD + LANG=C + export LANG + unset DISPLAY + cd /builddir/build/BUILD + rm -rf libupnp-1.6.0 + /usr/bin/bzip2 -dc /builddir/build/SOURCES/libupnp-1.6.0.tar.bz2 + tar -xf - tar: error while loading shared libraries: libacl.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory bzip2: I/O or other error, bailing out. Possible reason follows. bzip2: Broken pipe Input file = /builddir/build/SOURCES/libupnp-1.6.0.tar.bz2, output file = (stdout) error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.76182 (%prep) RPM build errors: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.76182 (%prep) Someone could help me ? Thanks Eric From fedora at leemhuis.info Mon Sep 3 18:21:55 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:21:55 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> On 03.09.2007 16:40, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for >> putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react >> quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as >> effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they >> are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should >> not risk to loose or burn them. > > This distinction is false. Luke worked on Bodhi voluntarily too. Very > few people are working on Fedora full time. I beg to differ -- Luke is not *responsible* for putting that boring paperwork put in place, so it's IMHO not his fault. Those that wanted bodhi are either paid for working on Fedora or members of FESCo afaics (and those people did not give Luke much time to realize bodhi, so it's would be even less his fault if it was his fault). CU knurd From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 18:59:35 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:29:35 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 03.09.2007 16:40, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for >>> putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react >>> quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as >>> effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they >>> are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should >>> not risk to loose or burn them. >> This distinction is false. Luke worked on Bodhi voluntarily too. Very >> few people are working on Fedora full time. > > I beg to differ -- Luke is not *responsible* for putting that boring > paperwork put in place, so it's IMHO not his fault. Those that wanted > bodhi are either paid for working on Fedora or members of FESCo afaics If you are referring to Bodhi are "boring paperwork", it was put up there to manage the repository after the merge. The merge brings in additional policies in place include freezes, actually having a announcement associated with an update which explains why you are pushing that update to the end user, pushing updates to updates-testing, closing relevant bugs etc. These might all be boring but necessary changes. AFAIK, this was done because the people involved believed that the advantages of a merge outweighs the short term disadvantages of having newer tools in place which might require improvements. If you have got any alternative solutions now that we are where we are, list them. That is better than figuring out where to assign blame. FESCo is a elected body. Right? If FESCo takes a decision, everybody assumes responsibility for those actions have elected them in the first place. Rahul From rjones at redhat.com Mon Sep 3 19:07:18 2007 From: rjones at redhat.com (Richard W.M. Jones) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:07:18 +0100 Subject: Does koji keep old buildroots around? Message-ID: <46DC5B66.3090005@redhat.com> Strange error from Koji today: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=145974&name=root.log The error is: Error: Missing Dependency: ocaml = 3.10.0-4.fc8 is needed by package ocaml-lablgl which would indeed be true, except that nothing I have BuildRequire'd should need ocaml-lablgl. In fact I don't want this package around right now because it has a broken dependency as above. The only thing I can think is that koji doesn't start with a completely fresh root each time ... Is this true, and if so how to stop it from doing that? Rich. -- Emerging Technologies, Red Hat - http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/ Registered Address: Red Hat UK Ltd, Amberley Place, 107-111 Peascod Street, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 1TE, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3237 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 21:26:43 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:26:43 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 00:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > On 03.09.2007 16:40, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >>> IOW: if the professional part and their people that were responsible for > >>> putting the boring paperwork in place should have an open ear and react > >>> quickly to comments like "you made the workflow harder" or "I'm not as > >>> effective as before" to keep the spare-time-contributors happy, as they > >>> are doing some good work as well -- thus the professional part should > >>> not risk to loose or burn them. > >> This distinction is false. Luke worked on Bodhi voluntarily too. Very > >> few people are working on Fedora full time. > > > > I beg to differ -- Luke is not *responsible* for putting that boring > > paperwork put in place, so it's IMHO not his fault. Those that wanted > > bodhi are either paid for working on Fedora or members of FESCo afaics ACK, therefore, it's them who are responsible and it's them who therefore now should demonstrate their will to take responsibility and take action. > If you are referring to Bodhi are "boring paperwork", it was put up > there to manage the repository after the merge. The merge brings in > additional policies in place include freezes, actually having a > announcement associated with an update which explains why you are > pushing that update to the end user, pushing updates to updates-testing, > closing relevant bugs etc. These might all be boring but necessary > changes. Wrong. Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers to implement it. FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live without this blown-up overhead. > AFAIK, this was done because the people involved believed that > the advantages of a merge outweighs the short term disadvantages of > having newer tools in place which might require improvements. Well, I had hoped the merger to provide benefits. Meanwhile, I am through a learning curve and think doubts are justified. > If you > have got any alternative solutions now that we are where we are, list > them. That is better than figuring out where to assign blame. Wouldn't the solution would be obvious? * RH to assign a couple of payed people to improve the existing system. * Those people who are responsible for pushing the existing systems, to actively improve the existing systems. * Some volunteers to step in. >From a volunteering community contributor's POV, the situation wrt. bodhi and the release process actually is quite simple: * It's "THEM" who want it, so it's "THEM" who are in charge of it. * If it isn't sufficiently usable, contributions will suffer. As a long term contributor to Fedora I can not avoid to add: Contributing has never been such kind of complicated and bureaucratic before, ever. Also, I find it really bewildering what an amount of fuzz my request is causing. Seems to me, as if I have touch a sacro-saint taboo :/ Actually I had expected "THE bodhi maintainer" to step up and answer "Will look into it ..." - instead, ... Ralf From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 21:30:39 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:00:39 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Wrong. > > Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy > is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers > to implement it. > > FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live > without this blown-up overhead. FE didn't have updates-testing, didn't do update announcements, had a rolling release model etc. Those things don't work in a merged world. Rahul From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 21:39:55 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:39:55 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188855595.24848.392.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:00 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > Wrong. > > > > Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy > > is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers > > to implement it. > > > > FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live > > without this blown-up overhead. > > FE didn't have updates-testing, didn't do update announcements, had a > rolling release model etc. Those things don't work in a merged world. That's what THEY (and apparently you think) want you to believe. FE worked quite well without it. Actually, updates-testing is an option which can be useful for a small minority of package, but ATM, updates-testing doesn't work well, either. Finally, updates-testing isn't the issue this thread started with. It's lack of usability of bodhi and the work-flow underneath, and passivity/refusal/inability of the those who are in charge of bodhi to improve it. Ralf From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 21:38:27 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:38:27 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> Wrong. >> >> Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy >> is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers >> to implement it. >> >> FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live >> without this blown-up overhead. > > FE didn't have updates-testing, didn't do update announcements, had a > rolling release model etc. Those things don't work in a merged world. > And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding unneeded updates. But lets face it (and this is in no way intended as me not appreciating Luke's hard work) bodhi (or rather the whole set of procedures surrounding it)) sucks rocks. I'm amazed now one has responded to me showing what it was like todo a new package and what it is now (and the same goes for an important / security bug fix) : [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc7.src.rpm [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel [hans at ... devel] make build [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-5 [hans at ... devel] cd ../FC-6 [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build [hans at ... FC-6] cd ../FC-5 [hans at ... FC-5] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build Now it is [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc8.src.rpm [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel [hans at ... devel] make build [hans at ... devel] cp * ../F-7 [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 [hans at ... devel] cd ../F-7 [hans at ... F-7] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build [hans at ... F-7] cd ../FC-6 [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag [hans at ... FC-6] make build Please explain to me how that is an improvement in anyway? Regards, Hans From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 21:46:44 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:46:44 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 23:38 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >> Wrong. > >> > >> Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy > >> is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers > >> to implement it. > >> > >> FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live > >> without this blown-up overhead. > > > > FE didn't have updates-testing, didn't do update announcements, had a > > rolling release model etc. Those things don't work in a merged world. > > > > And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > > Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding > unneeded updates. > > But lets face it (and this is in no way intended as me not appreciating Luke's > hard work) bodhi (or rather the whole set of procedures surrounding it)) sucks > rocks. > > I'm amazed now one has responded to me showing what it was like todo a new > package and what it is now (and the same goes for an important / security bug > fix) : > > [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc7.src.rpm > [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo > [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel > [hans at ... devel] make build > [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 > [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-5 > [hans at ... devel] cd ../FC-6 > [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build > [hans at ... FC-6] cd ../FC-5 > [hans at ... FC-5] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build > > > > Now it is > [hans at ... fedora-extras] common/cvs-import.sh wip/foo/foo-1.0-1.fc8.src.rpm > [hans at ... fedora-extras] cvs co foo > [hans at ... fedora-extras] cd foo/devel > [hans at ... devel] make build > [hans at ... devel] cp * ../F-7 > [hans at ... devel] cp * ../FC-6 > [hans at ... devel] cd ../F-7 > [hans at ... F-7] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag build > [hans at ... F-7] cd ../FC-6 > [hans at ... FC-6] make clog && cvs commit -F clog && rm clog && make tag > > > > request f-7 package push as update, skip updates-testing, otherwise > this gets even more painfull> > > > > > > [hans at ... FC-6] make build > > > Ohh? I am permanently nagged with mails reminding me about EVR problesm with packages between FC-6 and FC-7, because I can't push them for FC-7 because, I could not find them in bodhi. > Please explain to me how that is an improvement in anyway? eye-candy :-) Ralf From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 21:46:26 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:16:26 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > > And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > > Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding > unneeded updates. If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and there is some additional overhead as part of that. If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. Rahul From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 21:54:41 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:54:41 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: > > > > And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > > > > Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding > > unneeded updates. > If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > improved. This sounds suspiciously like you to just have volunteered? Ralf From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 21:54:36 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:24:36 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hans de Goede wrote: >>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >>> >>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding >>> unneeded updates. > >> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be >> improved. > > This sounds suspiciously like you to just have volunteered? No. If I wanted to volunteer, I would make that explicit. No need to read things I haven't said. Rahul From belegdol at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:00:04 2007 From: belegdol at gmail.com (Julian Sikorski) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:00:04 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> Rahul Sundaram pisze: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> >> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >> >> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of >> avoiding unneeded updates. > > If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing > that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely > necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and > there is some additional overhead as part of that. > > If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful > then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. > > Rahul The other problem is that pup does not display the info maintainers put into bodhi yet. From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 22:01:39 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:01:39 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> Message-ID: <46DC8443.404@hhs.nl> Julian Sikorski wrote: > Rahul Sundaram pisze: >> Hans de Goede wrote: >>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >>> >>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of >>> avoiding unneeded updates. >> If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing >> that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely >> necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and >> there is some additional overhead as part of that. >> >> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be >> improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful >> then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. >> >> Rahul > The other problem is that pup does not display the info maintainers put > into bodhi yet. > So you mean that we are doing this whole dance for like .. nothing? Ah great planning guys. Regards, Hans From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 22:05:54 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:05:54 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188857154.24848.407.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:24 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hans de Goede wrote: > >>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > >>> > >>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding > >>> unneeded updates. > > > >> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > >> improved. > > > > This sounds suspiciously like you to just have volunteered? > > No. If I wanted to volunteer, I would make that explicit. No need to > read things I haven't said. Then better stop being vocal about issues not interesting nor affecting you. Ralf From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 22:05:55 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:05:55 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> >> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >> >> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of >> avoiding unneeded updates. > > If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing > that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely > necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and > there is some additional overhead as part of that. > > If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful > then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. > You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying to make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying extra little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre merge release model. The tools available just aren't up to the job when it comes to the ergonomics of these tools, and don't give the answer that I should be fixing them then. There is a group of people responsible for pushing the community to the use of these tools, and the people responsible for the introduction of them should now take their responsibility for fixing them. Do you know what I want, I want to be able to say make release foo-1.1-1.fc7 foo-1.1-1.fc6 And then a tekst editor gets fired with a template for the update announcements and after that the system takes care of doing little details like building for fc6 once the update has hit F-7. Having todo this manually _sucks_ especially when you have to remember to do the fc6 build for days while waiting for the F-7 update to get pushed. Which reminds me: Note to self must build security update for ... ... ... for vavoom. Note to reader this is not a joke, I really still need to build it and I really needed to look up which package I need to build again. Also note that I cannot build it yet since the vavoom SECURITY fix still hasn't been pushed yet, so building this for FC-6 would break the upgrade path. Ahh perfect example this, can someone please explain to me how this does not suck? And if noone can, can someone please start working on streamlining this. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:06:55 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:36:55 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188857154.24848.407.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> <1188857154.24848.407.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <46DC857F.4000409@fedoraproject.org> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:24 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>> Hans de Goede wrote: >>>>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >>>>> >>>>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding >>>>> unneeded updates. >>>> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be >>>> improved. >>> This sounds suspiciously like you to just have volunteered? >> No. If I wanted to volunteer, I would make that explicit. No need to >> read things I haven't said. > Then better stop being vocal about issues not interesting nor affecting you. It does interest me and affects me. If you want to stop opinions just because I didn't volunteer that would apply to everyone in the discussion. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:09:04 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:39:04 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8443.404@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> <46DC8443.404@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <46DC8600.8000800@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > Julian Sikorski wrote: >> Rahul Sundaram pisze: >>> Hans de Goede wrote: >>>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >>>> >>>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of >>>> avoiding unneeded updates. >>> If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing >>> that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely >>> necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and >>> there is some additional overhead as part of that. >>> >>> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be >>> improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful >>> then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. >>> >>> Rahul >> The other problem is that pup does not display the info maintainers put >> into bodhi yet. >> > > So you mean that we are doing this whole dance for like .. nothing? > Ah great planning guys. The update announcement are part of the emails send out to fedora-test as well as fedora-package-announce list. IIRC pup used to display these for a brief period before being disable due to bugs. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:12:16 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:42:16 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > > You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep > dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying to > make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying extra > little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre merge > release model. That has not been clear to me so far. It appeared for a while that there was suggestions being made that pre-merge model worked fine and neither the processes nor tools have offered any improvements. Thanks for clarifying. Rahul From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 22:13:53 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:13:53 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8600.8000800@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> <46DC8443.404@hhs.nl> <46DC8600.8000800@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC8721.4060805@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> Julian Sikorski wrote: >>> Rahul Sundaram pisze: >>>> Hans de Goede wrote: >>>>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? >>>>> >>>>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of >>>>> avoiding unneeded updates. >>>> If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing >>>> that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't >>>> absolutely >>>> necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and >>>> there is some additional overhead as part of that. >>>> >>>> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be >>>> improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful >>>> then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. >>>> >>>> Rahul >>> The other problem is that pup does not display the info maintainers put >>> into bodhi yet. >>> >> >> So you mean that we are doing this whole dance for like .. nothing? >> Ah great planning guys. > > The update announcement are part of the emails send out to fedora-test > as well as fedora-package-announce list. IIRC pup used to display these > for a brief period before being disable due to bugs. > Yes and how many percent of our users is subscribed to these lists again? Like I said, great planning guys. I work for a Dutch semi government institution (university) and they had this brilliant idea they've replaced all our copiers with multifunctionals, which will be used for printing too. Printing doesn't work yet. They didn't bother to like ... test it. But they did already remove all the printers since we won't be needing them . Somehow I see an analogy here. Regards, Hans From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 22:14:29 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:14:29 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC8745.3040705@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> >> You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep >> dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying to >> make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying extra >> little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre merge >> release model. > > That has not been clear to me so far. It appeared for a while that there > was suggestions being made that pre-merge model worked fine and neither > the processes nor tools have offered any improvements. Thanks for > clarifying. > Lalala still dodging the bullet, I think you are the one Rahul. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:17:52 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:47:52 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8745.3040705@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8745.3040705@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <46DC8810.4080506@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hans de Goede wrote: >>> >>> You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep >>> dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying >>> to make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying extra >>> little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre merge >>> release model. >> >> That has not been clear to me so far. It appeared for a while that >> there was suggestions being made that pre-merge model worked fine and >> neither the processes nor tools have offered any improvements. Thanks >> for clarifying. >> > > Lalala still dodging the bullet, I think you are the one Rahul I am one what? I wanted to get some things clarified in the discussion which I did. I have skipped the other parts that I am not involved with. Rahul From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Sep 3 22:20:07 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:20:07 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8810.4080506@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8745.3040705@hhs.nl> <46DC8810.4080506@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46DC8897.5080803@hhs.nl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Hans de Goede wrote: >>>> >>>> You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep >>>> dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying >>>> to make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying >>>> extra little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre >>>> merge release model. >>> >>> That has not been clear to me so far. It appeared for a while that >>> there was suggestions being made that pre-merge model worked fine and >>> neither the processes nor tools have offered any improvements. Thanks >>> for clarifying. >>> >> >> Lalala still dodging the bullet, I think you are the one Rahul > > I am one what? That was a Matrix (the movie) reference, with Neo being "the one" and Neo dodging bullets. Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:20:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:50:51 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC8721.4060805@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> <46DC8443.404@hhs.nl> <46DC8600.8000800@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8721.4060805@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <46DC88C3.4080003@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > Yes and how many percent of our users is subscribed to these lists again? I am not sure we have a way to determine what percentage of users are subscribed to the lists. When the related bug(s) are fixed, pup would provide the information to other users too provided they are reading that. We don't have a way to determine that percentage either. Rahul From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 22:26:42 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:26:42 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC857F.4000409@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> <1188857154.24848.407.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC857F.4000409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188858402.24848.423.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:36 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:24 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >>> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>>> Hans de Goede wrote: > >>>>> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > >>>>> > >>>>> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of avoiding > >>>>> unneeded updates. > >>>> If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > >>>> improved. > >>> This sounds suspiciously like you to just have volunteered? > >> No. If I wanted to volunteer, I would make that explicit. No need to > >> read things I haven't said. > > Then better stop being vocal about issues not interesting nor affecting you. > > It does interest me and affects me. Nevertheless you continue to flood us with what I consider to be shallow word bubbles on praise of the new build-system (esp. bodhi)? Rahul, at least Hans and I are affected by the issues on an almost daily basis, probably due to the large amount of packages each of us maintains. Seriously affected, to be more precise. It's a massive work-flow regression, to use a "no-word". > If you want to stop opinions just > because I didn't volunteer that would apply to everyone in the discussion. OK, given your opinion on bodhi, you are certainly able to show me all of "my built but not released fc7 packages"? I am not able to find them. Ralf From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 3 22:27:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:57:31 +0530 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188858402.24848.423.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <1188856481.24848.403.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC829C.8030904@fedoraproject.org> <1188857154.24848.407.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC857F.4000409@fedoraproject.org> <1188858402.24848.423.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <46DC8A53.3030608@fedoraproject.org> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Nevertheless you continue to flood us with what I consider to be shallow > word bubbles on praise of the new build-system (esp. bodhi)? I haven't praised either the build-system or bodhi here. I have only talked about the additional processes involved due to the merge. You seem to be continuously reading things I haven't said. Rahul From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 22:36:30 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:36:30 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC8543.10201@hhs.nl> <46DC86C0.5010303@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1188858990.24848.433.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 03:42 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hans de Goede wrote: > > > > You know one thing I really dislike? I dislike it when people keep > > dodging the bullet in a discussion. What both Ralf and I are trying to > > make clear is that the new procedures cause lots of annoying extra > > little steps, we are not trying to rewind the clock to the pre merge > > release model. Right, I want to be able to use the infrastructure I am supposed to use, in efficient ways. ATM, this simply isn't possible. > That has not been clear to me so far. It appeared for a while that there > was suggestions being made that pre-merge model worked fine Nope. While I certainly think the pre-merge model worked fine, I am not proposing to revert the clock. Nevertheless, I think the current work-flow/process model suffers from flaws and it to be over-engineered, but I am not complaining about it, because it doesn't interest me. It's THEM who want it. As long as I am not _forced_ to use it, I am fine with it. > and neither > the processes nor tools have offered any improvements. Well, IMO, to most contributors/maintainers, they offer very little improvements. The tools offer eye-candy, but that's essentially all. Ralf From bugs.michael at gmx.net Mon Sep 3 22:53:53 2007 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 00:53:53 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:46:44 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > [hans at ... FC-6] make build > > > > > > > Ohh? I am permanently nagged with mails reminding me about EVR problesm > with packages between FC-6 and FC-7, because I can't push them for FC-7 > because, I could not find them in bodhi. That is because of a premature roll-out of the new updates system [1] where you are expected to enter the full src.rpm %name of each of your builds before the auto-completion would list them with full NEVR. Honestly, I have no idea how the major package contributors like Hans handle that for their many a dozen packages. ESR would have run wild. [1] Which otherwise comes with several good features, such as a web ui and announcement mails. From bugs.michael at gmx.net Mon Sep 3 22:55:37 2007 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 00:55:37 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070904005537.4ff1dabf.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:00:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > Wrong. > > > > Somebody decided _THEY_ wanted it, because _THEY_ think this bureaucracy > > is necessary and _THEY_ proceeded with it, because _THEY_ had the powers > > to implement it. > > > > FE had lived long enough to demonstrate it could prosper and live > > without this blown-up overhead. > > FE didn't have updates-testing, didn't do update announcements, had a > rolling release model etc. Those things don't work in a merged world. FE didn't have updates-testing because FESCo never wanted to offer such repositories and because plague didn't offer the necessary build targets. In turn, there has never been any work on creating code to maintain such repositories, not even on planning what would be needed [1] while Luke was working on the new updates system with access to internal code at Red Hat. There have been too many rumours about Red Hat opening up internal buildsys code, so that spending time on extending basic command-line tools a lot was not justified. [1] Recently I've shown thl what the rudimentary support for updates-testing repos in the current Extras pushscripts would look like. Pushing from plague needsign to updates-testing repos is not a problem. Pushing from updates-testing to the stable repos is not a problem either, but could need some love in the area of cleaning up old multi-lib test update packages. From rc040203 at freenet.de Mon Sep 3 22:58:05 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:58:05 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1188860285.24848.442.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 00:53 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:46:44 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > [hans at ... FC-6] make build > > > > > > > > > > > Ohh? I am permanently nagged with mails reminding me about EVR problesm > > with packages between FC-6 and FC-7, because I can't push them for FC-7 > > because, I could not find them in bodhi. > > That is because of a premature roll-out of the new updates system [1] > where you are expected to enter the full src.rpm %name of each of your > builds before the auto-completion would list them with full NEVR. Urgh, this sucks rocks. > Honestly, I have no idea how the major package contributors like Hans > handle that for their many a dozen packages. Well, Hans's package name often are short and unique (He primarily maintains "games"). Many of mine are perl packages with long and winding names: perl-Text-Quoted-2.02-3.fc7.src.rpm Unless I am mistaken such kind of package names kill this crazy auto-completion (I just tried what you said above, and even then it hardly worked.) > ESR would have run wild. :) > [1] Which otherwise comes with several good features, such as a web > ui and announcement mails. Good features from a user's POV, eye-candy from a maintainer's POV. Ralf From tla at rasmil.dk Tue Sep 4 07:18:57 2007 From: tla at rasmil.dk (Tim Lauridsen) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:18:57 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> Message-ID: <46DD06E1.2090104@rasmil.dk> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:46:44 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > >>> [hans at ... FC-6] make build >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Ohh? I am permanently nagged with mails reminding me about EVR problesm >> with packages between FC-6 and FC-7, because I can't push them for FC-7 >> because, I could not find them in bodhi. >> > > That is because of a premature roll-out of the new updates system [1] > where you are expected to enter the full src.rpm %name of each of your > builds before the auto-completion would list them with full NEVR. > > Honestly, I have no idea how the major package contributors like Hans > handle that for their many a dozen packages. ESR would have run wild. > > [1] Which otherwise comes with several good features, such as a web > ui and announcement mails. > > -- > Fedora-maintainers mailing list > Fedora-maintainers at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers > I'm a spare-time contributor too and i happy about bodhi, I think there is a need for a tool like that and i think i have some good features. * link to bugzilla reports, that get updated when a package is push to testing & stable. * update notes. * testers can comment the update. * easy push to testing & stable & unpush I only maintain a couple of packages so i don't have any problems, but i can see that for people there maintain a lot of packages, there need to be taken some steps to make there life easier. * Command line tool to submit updates to bodhi, there can be integrated with the CVS Makefile Allready in works. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/browser/tools/bodhi.py * Better package lookup when adding new updates. I have created a local bodhi instance ( https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/Development) and tested the latest upstream code, the typeahead lookup is much better. But the easiest way would be a button on the package build in koji to launch a populated new update in bodhi. This has to be done in koji. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ticket/36 I have asked Luke, where i can help and i have started to checkout the code and is started to hack on some of the open tickets. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/report/1 Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Sep 4 07:32:35 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:32:35 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <1188860285.24848.442.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <1188856004.24848.398.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904005353.16333c36.bugs.michael@gmx.net> <1188860285.24848.442.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1188891155.24848.467.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 00:58 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 00:53 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:46:44 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > > > [hans at ... FC-6] make build > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ohh? I am permanently nagged with mails reminding me about EVR problesm > > > with packages between FC-6 and FC-7, because I can't push them for FC-7 > > > because, I could not find them in bodhi. > > > > That is because of a premature roll-out of the new updates system [1] > > where you are expected to enter the full src.rpm %name of each of your > > builds before the auto-completion would list them with full NEVR. > Urgh, this sucks rocks. > > > Honestly, I have no idea how the major package contributors like Hans > > handle that for their many a dozen packages. > Well, Hans's package name often are short and unique (He primarily > maintains "games"). Many of mine are perl packages with long and winding > names: perl-Text-Quoted-2.02-3.fc7.src.rpm > > Unless I am mistaken such kind of package names kill this crazy > auto-completion (I just tried what you said above, and even then it > hardly worked.) Meanwhile, I know more: * I am using cut'n'paste in firefox to fill these forms. * Cut'n'paste alone doesn't trigger auto-completion One trick is to insert %name and to move the text-field cursor. e.g. cut'n'paste %name + Ralf From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 12:46:00 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:46:00 -0400 Subject: Does koji keep old buildroots around? In-Reply-To: <46DC5B66.3090005@redhat.com> References: <46DC5B66.3090005@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070904084600.421177d6@ender> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:07:18 +0100 "Richard W.M. Jones" wrote: > Strange error from Koji today: > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=145974&name=root.log > > The error is: > > Error: Missing Dependency: ocaml = 3.10.0-4.fc8 is needed by package > ocaml-lablgl > > which would indeed be true, except that nothing I have BuildRequire'd > should need ocaml-lablgl. In fact I don't want this package around > right now because it has a broken dependency as above. > > The only thing I can think is that koji doesn't start with a > completely fresh root each time ... Is this true, and if so how to > stop it from doing that? It starts from fresh each time. See Michael's mail about why this is happening. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 13:54:05 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:54:05 -0400 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070904135405.GD2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 07:10:19AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Hi, > > I am facing a problem with bodhi's usability: > > The problem: I have rebuilt a larger number packages for fc7 and want to > push them as updates. The current "new package" field however requires > maintainers to remember all package details of package they might have > pending. I.e. unless a maintainer carefully keeps book of koji-builds, > he will loose oversight. > > Also, the "package name expansion magic" currently being used doesn't > help me much. It almost never returns results suitable for me (most of > my rebuilt packages are perl modules. Inserting "perl" or "perl-*" > doesn't help at all). I improved this feature a while ago, adding the ability to auto-complete packages too (although, it has yet to hit our production instance). Mike has filed an enhancement request[0] for essentially removing the 'Release' dropdown, and have bodhi intelligently present the developer with builds that can potentially be pushed. > Can we please have a better method to insert packages to "new updates"? > > Or even better: Can we have some sort of "browser" in bodhi, which > contains all "koji-built and yet unreleased packages"? This is a good idea. This could be implemented along with the enhancement request that I mentioned above. I'm also in the process of polishing up a command-line client for bodhi that will trivialize bodhi-interaction. luke [0]: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ticket/84 From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 13:56:49 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:56:49 -0400 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> Message-ID: <20070904135649.GE2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 12:48:48PM +0200, Tim Lauridsen wrote: > What about a button inside a koji packages to add the the package as a > uddate i body. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ticket/36 This is going to require the ability to overload the /new controller with various fields to have them pre-populated. It shouldn't be very difficult; I started working on it last night luke From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 14:02:44 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:02:44 -0400 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070904140244.GF2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 05:55:37AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? > > You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency > for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this > matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( Actually, much has improved in bodhi -- I've just been too busy adding features to keep our production instance in sync with it. I'm in the process of writing a ton of test cases to make sure the bodhi upgrade goes smoothly. A lot of your issues will be solved soon. Patience, my friend. luke From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Sep 4 14:11:54 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:11:54 +0200 Subject: bodhi: Adding "new package" In-Reply-To: <20070904140244.GF2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904140244.GF2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <1188915114.24848.559.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 10:02 -0400, Luke Macken wrote: > On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 05:55:37AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > And you probably know what "increasing the pressure" means? > > > > You bodhi and rel-eng guys know about this bodhi usability deficiency > > for quite a while, but nothing much seems to have improved on this > > matter since - Actually, this issue becomes really annoying :( > > Actually, much has improved in bodhi -- I've just been too busy adding > features to keep our production instance in sync with it. I'm in the > process of writing a ton of test cases to make sure the bodhi upgrade goes > smoothly. A lot of your issues will be solved soon. I'll keep my fingers crossed ;) > Patience, my friend. We'll see, I've been confronted with "patience please" excuses in Fedora too often and then nothing happening to grant any trust in them anymore. Nevertheless, thank you very much for your answers. I really appreciate them very much. Ralf From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 14:20:07 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:20:07 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> References: <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <46DC1CCF.5040802@fedoraproject.org> <46DC50C3.8020207@leemhuis.info> <46DC5997.9010004@fedoraproject.org> <1188854803.24848.386.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DC7CFF.6030207@fedoraproject.org> <46DC7ED3.5030102@hhs.nl> <46DC80B2.1080203@fedoraproject.org> <46DC83E4.6080207@gmail.gom> Message-ID: <20070904142007.GG2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 12:00:04AM +0200, Julian Sikorski wrote: > Rahul Sundaram pisze: > > Hans de Goede wrote: > >> > >> And why not ? They worked well enough before, didn't they? > >> > >> Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of updates announcements and of > >> avoiding unneeded updates. > > > > If you already in favor of these, I don't think you need any convincing > > that these are important for the end users. Sure, they aren't absolutely > > necessary but these are an improvement over what we had previously and > > there is some additional overhead as part of that. > > > > If anyone in favor of the processes then implementation details can be > > improved. If anyone thinks that the processes themselves are not useful > > then any implementation won't make them happy. Don't mix these. > > > > Rahul > The other problem is that pup does not display the info maintainers put > into bodhi yet. This data will appear soon. luke From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 14:38:37 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:38:37 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:29:47AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 09:56 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please > > so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, > > but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike > > that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better > > yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some > > days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will > > be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar > > with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at > > that point, > Pretty nicely summarized, how I feel about many of the developments wrt. > Fedora since the merger ;) > > Wrt. my request, I feel bodhi is lacking an essential key-feature, > without which efficient and reliable usage of bodhi is impossible. > > The actual problem can be summarized in one simple sentence: > Where/how to find "my built, but yet not released packages in bodhi"? $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Sep 4 14:47:08 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:47:08 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <1188917229.24848.572.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 10:38 -0400, Luke Macken wrote: > On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:29:47AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 09:56 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > > Then you speak up and say "hey, I dislike that; can you fix that please > > > so it nearly as easy than before". Other spare-time-contributors agree, > > > but nothing happens for months. Then you again say "I really dislike > > > that" and then someone from the professional part says "make it better > > > yourself; just learn foo and bar "(which for most people will be some > > > days of work if they never touched foo or bar before; time that BTW will > > > be lost for the stuff you like and do well)" and make yourself familiar > > > with foobar; then improve it yourself". I'd feel really pissed of at > > > that point, > > Pretty nicely summarized, how I feel about many of the developments wrt. > > Fedora since the merger ;) > > > > Wrt. my request, I feel bodhi is lacking an essential key-feature, > > without which efficient and reliable usage of bodhi is impossible. > > > > The actual problem can be summarized in one simple sentence: > > Where/how to find "my built, but yet not released packages in bodhi"? > > $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME bodhi? The actual usability problem is bodhi<->koji interaction. Ralf From opensource at till.name Tue Sep 4 14:56:50 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:56:50 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <200709041657.00507.opensource@till.name> On Di September 4 2007, Luke Macken wrote: > $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME This takes at least several minutes with a 100Mbit uplink to run, I do not know, how long it really takes, because it is still running. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From opensource at till.name Tue Sep 4 14:58:57 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:58:57 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <200709041658.58593.opensource@till.name> On Di September 4 2007, Luke Macken wrote: > $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME It just completed when I sent my last mail: real 3m28.062s user 0m1.644s sys 0m0.136s Imho this is not an acceptable solution. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From tibbs at math.uh.edu Tue Sep 4 15:00:03 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 04 Sep 2007 10:00:03 -0500 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <200709041657.00507.opensource@till.name> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> <200709041657.00507.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: >>>>> "TM" == Till Maas writes: TM> This takes at least several minutes with a 100Mbit uplink to run, TM> I do not know, how long it really takes, because it is still TM> running. It doesn't take quite that long for me (just over a minute), but it shows 548 packages. That may be illustrative of the current level of confusion over the updates process. - J< From lmacken at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 15:25:05 2007 From: lmacken at redhat.com (Luke Macken) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:25:05 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <1188917229.24848.572.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <200709010833.13530.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> <1188917229.24848.572.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070904152505.GJ2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 04:47:08PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > The actual problem can be summarized in one simple sentence: > > > Where/how to find "my built, but yet not released packages in bodhi"? > > > > $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME > > bodhi? > > The actual usability problem is bodhi<->koji interaction. Yes, I'm well aware. So, how would you like to see this implemented? The problem here is that generating this package list is a fairly expensive operation. To do this, we either have to get a list of all builds in a tag, then filter by owner, or get all builds by a person and filter by tag. So, my initial thought is to enhance the current auto-completion field to fetch dist-$RELEASE-updates-candidate builds when someone types their package name. Ok, but how do we determine $RELEASE? Right now when you go to /new and submit an update, we query koji based on the tag associated with the Release dropdown. As mentioned before[0], this is annoying and unnecessary. So, in order to be able to remove this, we could then possibly just show all available builds for a supplied package tagged with dist-*-updates-candidate? (I'm not sure how easy this would be to get this information from koji without multiple listTagged calls). Or we could expand the "new update" menu on the side bar to have an option for each release? ie: New Update |- F7 (/new/F7) This way we would know what tag to query for right when the update form is loaded. I believe you also mentioned the possibly creating some sort of browser to show all available builds that have yet to be pushed. I like this idea as well, but how would we keep this list in sync with koji? (without hammering it with expensive requests everytime the new update form is loaded). The data exists, the problem we currently face is determining the most efficient way to get our hands on it at runtime. luke [0]: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/ticket/84 From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Sep 4 16:38:32 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:38:32 +0200 Subject: EPEL SIG Meetings now alternating between 17:00 and 23:00 UTC on Wednesdays Message-ID: <46DD8A08.3030905@leemhuis.info> Hi all! Just FYI, in the EPEL SIG meeting last week it was decided to have alternating meeting times for our weekly meetings on Wednesdays. In weeks with an even number (like this one, as it's the 36th week currently; the gnome panel date applet will tell you the current week number) we'll have the meetings at 23:00 UTC. In the weeks with and odd number we'll continue to have them at 17:00 UTC. Time are daylight saving times. During the winters we'll adjust them by one hour, to make sure the effective meeting time stays the same. So join us in the next meeting, which is scheduled for tomorrow at 23:00**UTC in #fedora-meeting. CU knurd P.S.: Note that this new meeting scheme doesn't revert the plan to try to get more stuff done on the list and less in the meetings. That still the plan, but we need to experiment a bit how to actually have a good workflow on the list (and quick meetings that still will be needed). From caillon at redhat.com Tue Sep 4 20:05:58 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:05:58 -0400 Subject: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers In-Reply-To: <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821133356.61e17560@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:33:56 -0400 > Jesse Keating wrote: > >> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:29:43 +0100 >> "Jonathan Underwood" wrote: >> >> > In recent weeks a lot of mailing list traffic I would have expected to >> > come to this list has gone to fedora-devel. People seem confused as to >> > what should be discussed where wrt to these two lists. Heck, in recent >> > weeks, it's not clear to me. Can we either get a lot more disciplined >> > about pointing out when people are using the wrong list or (this would >> > be my choice) kill off fedora-maintainers. >> >> I'm +1 for killing -maintainers. Now that we have >> fedora-devel-announce people can, if they wish, not get all the "noise" >> of fedora-devel and instead just get the announcements. Since >> fedora-devel-announce postings go to fedora-devel-list as well, you >> don't have to subscribe to yet another announce list if you don't want >> to. > > +1 to killing it. > > josh > Apparently, asking this list was the wrong way to get things done. How do we really do this? Does this need to be proposed to some group? Does this need to come up for vote at some meeting? How do we actually cut the life support here? From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Sep 4 20:13:28 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:13:28 -0500 Subject: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers In-Reply-To: <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821133356.61e17560@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070904151328.2f802fa8@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:05:58 -0400 Christopher Aillon wrote: > Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:33:56 -0400 > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:29:43 +0100 > >> "Jonathan Underwood" wrote: > >> > >> > In recent weeks a lot of mailing list traffic I would have expected to > >> > come to this list has gone to fedora-devel. People seem confused as to > >> > what should be discussed where wrt to these two lists. Heck, in recent > >> > weeks, it's not clear to me. Can we either get a lot more disciplined > >> > about pointing out when people are using the wrong list or (this would > >> > be my choice) kill off fedora-maintainers. > >> > >> I'm +1 for killing -maintainers. Now that we have > >> fedora-devel-announce people can, if they wish, not get all the "noise" > >> of fedora-devel and instead just get the announcements. Since > >> fedora-devel-announce postings go to fedora-devel-list as well, you > >> don't have to subscribe to yet another announce list if you don't want > >> to. > > > > +1 to killing it. > > > > josh > > > > > Apparently, asking this list was the wrong way to get things done. How > do we really do this? Does this need to be proposed to some group? > Does this need to come up for vote at some meeting? How do we actually > cut the life support here? FESCo would be my best guess. josh From opensource at till.name Tue Sep 4 20:15:25 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:15:25 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> On So September 2 2007, Hans de Goede wrote: > As a contributer with lots of packages (the counter has hit 150 now) I > quite regulary push updates and I must say bodhi's current usuability is > barely acceptable. What ever happened to the promised "make > updates[-testing]"? I wrote today an addon makefile[1] for the Fedora Makefile.common. You can use it with adding FAS_USERNAME= -include /path/to/Makefile.common-addons.gmk to ~/.cvspkgsrc There is some documentation included. It provides this new targets: bodhi-login Login to bodhi / get a session cookie bodhi-create-update Create a new update in Bodhi bodhi-prepare-update Prepare a new update notification commit Commit changes to cvs with entries from spec changelog cvsurl-head Show head cvsurl help-addons Shows the normal and the addon help text koji-logs-url Show URL to koji buildlogs koji-logs Download koji buildlogs koji-unreleased-builds Shows which builds of yours need to be released scratch-build Creates a scratch build for all archs scratch-build- Creates a scratch build for selected arches (comma separated) scratch-head-build Creates a scratch build for all archs from cvs HEAD scratch-head-build- Creates a scratch build for selected arches (comma separated) from cvs HEAD I plan to extend it with bodhi-push-update[-testing] targets, but not today. I tested it as much as I could, but there may be still something broken, so only use it at you own risk. But if you dare, please report back, whether this is useful for you. Regards, Till [1] http://till.fedorapeople.org/Makefile.common-addons/Makefile.common-addons.gmk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From opensource at till.name Tue Sep 4 20:18:02 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:18:02 +0200 Subject: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers In-Reply-To: <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> On Di September 4 2007, Christopher Aillon wrote: > Apparently, asking this list was the wrong way to get things done. How > do we really do this? Does this need to be proposed to some group? > Does this need to come up for vote at some meeting? How do we actually > cut the life support here? Afaik should FESCO decision and knurd know more, because he proposed a reorganization of the mailinglists a long time ago. It was delayed because someone wanted to combine this with moving to @fedoraproject.org adresses / an own mailserver for Fedora, but now there is no hardware available for this. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From ville.skytta at iki.fi Tue Sep 4 21:06:01 2007 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?iso-8859-1?q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:06:01 +0300 Subject: gkrellm-hddtemp orphan/EOL Message-ID: <200709050006.02096.ville.skytta@iki.fi> Hello, I just found out that gkrellm can use a server mode hddtemp out of the box, which means I'm no longer interested in gkrellm-hddtemp. If someone still wants it, please yell now and volunteer to maintain it - if a new owner does not show up, I'll orphan it for <= F-7 and invoke EOL process for F-8+ next weekendish. From dominik at greysector.net Tue Sep 4 22:56:16 2007 From: dominik at greysector.net (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:56:16 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy (was: Re: bodhi: Adding "new package") In-Reply-To: <20070904152505.GJ2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> References: <46D94390.7000204@rasmil.dk> <46D980A2.3040006@redhat.com> <1188705337.20314.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DA476B.2050302@redhat.com> <46DA5DBA.5050009@rasmil.dk> <46DA6CBB.3060506@leemhuis.info> <1188721787.24848.35.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904143837.GI2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> <1188917229.24848.572.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070904152505.GJ2984@crow.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <20070904225616.GA14856@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> On Tuesday, 04 September 2007 at 17:25, Luke Macken wrote: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 04:47:08PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > The actual problem can be summarized in one simple sentence: > > > > Where/how to find "my built, but yet not released packages in bodhi"? > > > > > > $ koji list-tagged --latest dist-fc7-updates-candidate | grep $USERNAME > > > > bodhi? > > > > The actual usability problem is bodhi<->koji interaction. > > Yes, I'm well aware. > > So, how would you like to see this implemented? The problem here is that > generating this package list is a fairly expensive operation. To do > this, we either have to get a list of all builds in a tag, then filter > by owner, or get all builds by a person and filter by tag. Start with filtering by person. It's the only sane thing to do. AFAIK no packager has more than 200 packages and most of them have only a couple. Regards, R. -- Fedora contributor http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DominikMierzejewski Livna contributor http://rpm.livna.org MPlayer developer http://mplayerhq.hu "Faith manages." -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations" From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Sep 5 05:23:28 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:23:28 +0200 Subject: mailinglists reorganization (was: Re: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers) In-Reply-To: <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <46DE3D50.5070302@leemhuis.info> On 04.09.2007 22:18, Till Maas wrote: > On Di September 4 2007, Christopher Aillon wrote: > >> Apparently, asking this list was the wrong way to get things done. How >> do we really do this? Does this need to be proposed to some group? >> Does this need to come up for vote at some meeting? How do we actually >> cut the life support here? > > Afaik should FESCO decision and knurd know more, because he proposed a > reorganization of the mailinglists a long time ago. Well, the last time was about six weeks ago on fab-list. But I stopped to work further on this (and told the board about it in private) after that because - the board simply made decisions before the proposal actually was discussed in public on fedora-devel-list. This is a community project and if the Board or another Committee makes decisions before the community discussed something there is something totally wrong IMHO - many people from FAB (mainly Board or FESCO members) wanted different things -- each time the proposal was discussed it was directed into a different direction by different people, killing ideas that were agreed on in earlier discussion. Such a moving target is hard to hit (I knew it would be hard to get the community to accept the reorganization, but I didn't expect the Board/FAB to say "a" two days ago, "b" today and "c (which doesn't work together with 'a')" the next day -- I'm not willing to invest my spare time for such a moving target) - I got the impression that the Board only wanted to pamper over some annoyances instead of fixing the underlying problems, which is not what I wanted - some more, minor reasons > It was delayed because > someone wanted to combine this with moving to @fedoraproject.org adresses / > an own mailserver for Fedora, but now there is no hardware available for > this. Well, the more important reasons was: F7 was more important back then and bound all energy, so I didn't drive it further. CU knurd P.S.:Yes, if you read carefully you'll see lot of frustration between the words. Contributing to the Fedora project has become way more harder over the past months and "what contributors and users want" IMHO is not getting enough attention. Getting something done without investing much time or being in the Committee that makes the final decisions is way to hard in a lot of areas, as the Committee-Members use their power way to much (yes, I realize that all of this was already becoming a problem when I was FESCo chair; I tried to work against that back then, but I know I could have done better). IOW: I think I'm on my way out of Fedora slowly if it doesn't get better again. Sure, some of the things are "growing pains", but they seem to not be addressed to me. P.P.S.: I'm willing to work again on the mailing list reorganization if it's getting discussed on fedora-devel and Board and FESCO members raise any concerns there not after that discussion in their meetings when the stuff comes up for votings (e.g. no freaking next-to-endless-loops like "foo> I had not time to participate in the public discussion, but I totally don't like (a part of it|the whole idea)" "chair> okay, then we don't decide on it and move the discussion back to the list and request that foo's concerns get addressed") /me now really need to go to work -- lots to do today... From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Sep 5 05:32:09 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:32:09 +0200 Subject: EPEL report week 35 2007 Message-ID: <46DE3F59.7050303@leemhuis.info> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Reports/Week35 (sorry, a bit late this time; was busy on sunday, afk Monday after work and didn't get it completely finished yesterday evening) = Weekly EPEL Summary = Week 35/2007 == Most important happenings == * we will do alternate meeting times now; 23:00 one week, 17:00 UTC the other; next meeting at 20070905 at 23:00 UTC * FESCo [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-August/msg02213.html extended the mandate] for the EPEL Steering Committee * the plan is to push new packages (not updates ones) more often to stable in the future; likely every four weeks for now -- no exact timeframe can be given yet, as we need to see how complicate it is (the process needs to be prepared manually by someone in a local test-repo first, to check if all deps are still satisfied before packages can actually be moved) == EPEL SIG Meeting == === Attending === >From the Steering Committee: * dgilmore (DennisGilmore) * knurd (ThorstenLeemhuis) * mmcgrath (MikeMcGrath) * Jeff_S (Jeff Sheltren) * nirik (KevinFenzi) * stahnma (MichaelStahnke) Missing from the Steering Committee: * quaid (KarstenWade) === Summary === * easier pushing from testing to stable * nirik can push for EPEL as well (in addition to dgilmore, knurd and mmcgrath) * mschwendt did some improvements to the scripts (many thx mschwendt for your work!); they should make it easy to move something from testing to stable ; the final patch to the scripts-in-production was not applied yet ; knurd talked to dgilmore about it (he knows the scripts way better than I do) and wants to take a look (on his todo list after fixing plague ); if he doesn't find the time knurd will take the risk over the next few days as do it himself * we need to be careful that a update doesn't depend on something else in testing. * new meeting schedule/scheme * alternate meetings are the new black; find the details in https://www.redhat.com/archives/epel-devel-list/2007-September/msg00005.html and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Meetings * MetaData for all Packages available to contributors. -- stahnma * I've been trying to get a better definition of the problem ; I understand the issue, but use-cases etc would be nice ; we need a clear stance on EPEL not stepping on RHN provided material and a way to hopefully enforce it * might be a good start to at least have a package list of RHEL4 and RHEL5 online somewhere * mandate for the Steering Committee * nirik will ask FESCo (which happened in between) * push quicker to stable * see section "most important happenings" * Free discussion around EPEL * Quotes: "I want a pony" and "the weather sucks " * stahnma> "I am trying to get some more #rhel and #rhn people involved here in EPEL "; are there any other channels/mailing lists where we should ask interested people to join us in the meetings? * stahnma> "can anyone write for RH magazine? " stahnma will evaluate and would happily write it; but maybe mether or someone else is preparing one already? * nirik is working on clamav; comments on his post appreciated; "and solving the problems with the packaging and compatibility with dag/rpmforge would be good"; on the other hand it's good if stuff is similar in Fedora and EPEL === Full Log === https://www.redhat.com/archives/epel-devel-list/2007-September/msg00006.html == Stats == === General === Number of EPEL Contributors: unknown -- looks like we'll have it next again next week! === EPEL 5 === Number of source packages: 628 Number of binary packages: 1196 There are 29 new Packages: * amtterm | Serial-over-lan (sol) client for Intel AMT * dfu-programmer | A Device Firmware Update based USB programmer for Atmel chips * dstat | Versatile resource statistics tool * erlang | General-purpose programming language and runtime environment * iftop | Command line tool that displays bandwidth usage on an interface * jhead | Tool for displaying EXIF data embedded in JPEG images * perl-CGI-Simple | Simple totally OO CGI interface that is CGI.pm compliant * perl-CGI-Untaint | Process CGI input parameters * perl-Class-Trigger | Mixin to add / call inheritable triggers * perl-Class-Whitehole | Base class to treat unhandled method calls as errors * perl-Date-Simple | Simple date object for perl * perl-Exporter-Lite | Lightweight exporting of variables * perl-OLE-Storage_Lite | Simple Class for OLE document interface * perl-Spreadsheet-WriteExcel | Write formatted text and numbers to a cross-platform Excel binary file * perl-SQL-Abstract | Generate SQL from Perl data structures * perl-Tie-DBI | Tie hashes to DBI relational databases * perl-UNIVERSAL-exports | Lightweight, universal exporting of variables * perl-UNIVERSAL-moniker | Real world naming for classes * pexpect | Pure Python Expect-like module * php-extras | Additional PHP modules from the standard PHP distribution * php-pecl-memcache | Extension to work with the Memcached caching daemon * python-boto | A simple lightweight interface to Amazon Web Services * rootsh | Shell wrapper for auditing * shapelib | API in "C" for Shapefile handling * xbase | XBase compatible database library and tools * xbiso | ISO extraction utility for xdvdfs images * xbsql | A SQL wrapper for xbase * xclip | Command line clipboard grabber * yum-cron | Files needed to run yum updates as a cron job === EPEL 4 === Number of source packages: 413 Number of binary packages: 827 There are 30 new Packages: * createrepo | Creates a common metadata repository * gmrun | Lightweight "Run program" dialog box with search history and tab completion * iftop | Command line tool that displays bandwidth usage on an interface * pdns | A modern, advanced and high performance authoritative-only nameserver * perl-CGI-Simple | Simple totally OO CGI interface that is CGI.pm compliant * perl-CGI-Untaint | Process CGI input parameters * perl-Class-Trigger | Mixin to add / call inheritable triggers * perl-Class-Whitehole | Base class to treat unhandled method calls as errors * perl-Date-Simple | Simple date object for perl * perl-Exporter-Lite | Lightweight exporting of variables * perl-OLE-Storage_Lite | Simple Class for OLE document interface * perl-Spreadsheet-WriteExcel | Write formatted text and numbers to a cross-platform Excel binary file * perl-SQL-Abstract | Generate SQL from Perl data structures * perl-String-CRC32 | Perl interface for cyclic redundancy check generation * perl-Tie-DBI | Tie hashes to DBI relational databases * perl-UNIVERSAL-exports | Lightweight, universal exporting of variables * perl-UNIVERSAL-moniker | Real world naming for classes * pexpect | Pure Python Expect-like module * php-idn | PHP API for GNU LibIDN * python-boto | A simple lightweight interface to Amazon Web Services * python-elementtree | Fast XML parser and writer * python-urlgrabber | A high-level cross-protocol url-grabber * rootsh | Shell wrapper for auditing * shapelib | API in "C" for Shapefile handling * tidy | Utility to clean up and pretty print HTML/XHTML/XML * xbase | XBase compatible database library and tools * xbiso | ISO extraction utility for xdvdfs images * xbsql | A SQL wrapper for xbase * xclip | Command line clipboard grabber * yum | RPM installer/updater ---- ["CategoryEPELReports"] From tibbs at math.uh.edu Wed Sep 5 05:42:24 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 05 Sep 2007 00:42:24 -0500 Subject: Summary of the 2007-09-04 Packaging Committee meeting Message-ID: Meeting minutes and full logs of the packaging committee meeting which occurred on 2007-09-04 are online: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Minutes http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Minutes20070904 Executive summary: The following draft is now official, having been accepted by FESCO last week: * The first three sections of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/PHP (Requires and Provides for PEAR and PECL packages and Macros and Scriptlets for PECL packages). These should be written into the guidelines soon if this hasn't already been done by the time you read this. There were no votes this week, so no issues are pending FESCO ratification. Misc business: There was more discussion of the proposed guidelines for packaging Python eggs: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/PythonEggs This is a complex issue; if you have interest in Python packaging then please read over the draft and voice your concerns. - J< From bugs.michael at gmx.net Wed Sep 5 08:49:59 2007 From: bugs.michael at gmx.net (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:49:59 +0200 Subject: EPEL report week 35 2007 In-Reply-To: <46DE3F59.7050303@leemhuis.info> References: <46DE3F59.7050303@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070905104959.f1457934.bugs.michael@gmx.net> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:32:09 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > === Summary === > > * easier pushing from testing to stable > > * nirik can push for EPEL as well (in addition to dgilmore, knurd and > mmcgrath) > > * mschwendt did some improvements to the scripts (many thx mschwendt > for your work!); they should make it easy to move something from testing > to stable ; the final patch to the scripts-in-production was not applied > yet ; knurd talked to dgilmore about it (he knows the scripts way better > than I do) and wants to take a look (on his todo list after fixing > plague ); if he doesn't find the time knurd will take the risk over the > next few days as do it himself Clarification: What is called "the final patch" here is just a patch against the EPEL-specific config file, in which to define the two "testing/4" and "testing/5" repositories. The small code modifications are used in production, i.e. Extras pushes with the same code since the same day I committed the changes (except that it doesn't push to testing at all). With the modified config file, the scripts can push to testing without losing track of the stable "4" and "5" repos. [Previously, the EPEL config file only defined the stable repos 4 and 5, but placed them in the "testing" dir, hiding the real stable repos. If to access the stable repos (e.g. with repobuild after deleting packages or moving packages from testing), it would have needed a second config file, where the paths don't point to the testing dir.] From alexl at users.sourceforge.net Wed Sep 5 11:05:25 2007 From: alexl at users.sourceforge.net (Alex Lancaster) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:05:25 -0700 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> (Till Maas's message of "Tue\, 04 Sep 2007 22\:15\:25 +0200") References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: >>>>> "TM" == Till Maas writes: [...] TM> I plan to extend it with bodhi-push-update[-testing] targets, but TM> not today. I tested it as much as I could, but there may be still TM> something broken, so only use it at you own risk. But if you dare, TM> please report back, whether this is useful for you. Till, Just tried your new addon Makefile on a new F-7 update, works very nicely for me! Yes, it would be also nice to have the bodhi-push-update/testing targets as well, ultimately. But this gets you over the oft-quoted hurdle of having to go to the website and use the spinner box to search for each of the updates, because you can run it immediately after each (successful) build in turn while you are in the F-7 branch directory for the package (and it prefills out the notification from the changelog: yes!!). Once the updates are queued, it's easy to go the bodhi website to push them en-masse. A couple of questions: 1) what's the difference between the bodhi-create-update and bodhi-prepare-update targets? 2) is can use bodhi-create-update smart enough to run the "make build" target *first* (and making sure they are succesful) before creating the update? That way you could do your builds and pushes in one step, and would almost get you back to the convenience of plague builds from the FC-6 and earlier era... ;) Thank you! Alex PS. The new "commit" target also helps speed up the process of checking in updates to multiple branches (including for FC-6 builds using plague). From mtasaka at ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp Wed Sep 5 11:12:51 2007 From: mtasaka at ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Mamoru Tasaka) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:12:51 +0900 Subject: XTide relicended (was: Re: rpms/xtide/devel .cvsignore, 1.21, 1.22 sources, 1.21, 1.22 xtide.spec, 1.32, 1.33) In-Reply-To: <200709051109.l85B9P5N008226@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200709051109.l85B9P5N008226@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <46DE8F33.9020302@ioa.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp> XTide was relicensed on 2.9.4. Mamoru Tasaka (mtasaka) wrote, at 09/05/2007 08:09 PM +9:00: > Author: mtasaka > > Update of /cvs/extras/rpms/xtide/devel > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv8109/devel > > Modified Files: > .cvsignore sources xtide.spec > Log Message: > * Wed Sep 5 2007 Mamoru Tasaka - 2.9.4-1 > - 2.9.4 > (Relicensed: GPLv2+ -> GPLv3+) > - Update user creation script > > Index: xtide.spec > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/extras/rpms/xtide/devel/xtide.spec,v > retrieving revision 1.32 > retrieving revision 1.33 > diff -u -r1.32 -r1.33 > --- xtide.spec 21 Aug 2007 18:54:31 -0000 1.32 > +++ xtide.spec 5 Sep 2007 11:08:52 -0000 1.33 > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > Summary: Calculate tide all over the world > Name: xtide > -Version: 2.9.3 > -Release: 3%{?dist}.2 > +Version: 2.9.4 > +Release: 1%{?dist} > > URL: http://www.flaterco.com/xtide/ > Source0: ftp://ftp.flaterco.com/xtide/%{name}-%{version}.tar.bz2 > @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ > Source40: Harminics-USpart-recreate-sh.tar.bz2 > Source41: harmonics-dwf-%{dwfdate}-dump-US.tar.bz2 > > -License: GPLv2+ > +License: GPLv3+ > Group: Applications/Engineering > BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n) > From opensource at till.name Wed Sep 5 11:42:37 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:42:37 +0200 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <200709051342.42551.opensource@till.name> On Mi September 5 2007, Alex Lancaster wrote: > A couple of questions: 1) what's the difference between the > bodhi-create-update and bodhi-prepare-update targets? With bodhi-prepare-update you can edit the notification template without sending it to bodhi, e.g. whil the build is running. bodhi-create-update will then use the template to send it to bodhi, unless you touched you spec file, then you have to create the notification again, but there is a backup in update-notification~. > 2) is can use > bodhi-create-update smart enough to run the "make build" target > *first* (and making sure they are succesful) before creating the > update? That way you could do your builds and pushes in one step, and > would almost get you back to the convenience of plague builds from the > FC-6 and earlier era... ;) You can first run "make bodhi-prepare-update" and then "make build bodhi-create-update". In case the build fails, either koji returns with a return value != 0 (I don't know, whether this is the case) and make should output an error and abort or bodhi does not know the update and nothing should happen. But after you touched the .spec file the update notification will be overwritten, I do not know yet, how this can be improved. I did not test this, but imho it should work. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Sep 5 11:52:22 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 07:52:22 -0400 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <20070905075222.0b2f15b2@ender> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:15:25 +0200 Till Maas wrote: > I wrote today an addon makefile[1] for the Fedora Makefile.common. > You can use it with adding Till, this stuff looks pretty awesome. Thank you very much for putting the effort into this, I really appreciate it. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Sep 5 13:11:45 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 08:11:45 -0500 Subject: keeping spare-time-contributors happy In-Reply-To: <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> References: <1188623419.20314.32.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <46DADCBF.3060904@leemhuis.info> <46DAED30.2030004@hhs.nl> <200709042215.36188.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <46DEAB11.4000803@redhat.com> Till Maas wrote: > On So September 2 2007, Hans de Goede wrote: > > >> As a contributer with lots of packages (the counter has hit 150 now) I >> quite regulary push updates and I must say bodhi's current usuability is >> barely acceptable. What ever happened to the promised "make >> updates[-testing]"? >> > > I wrote today an addon makefile[1] for the Fedora Makefile.common. You can use > it with adding > Excellent, Luke is finalizing some of the Bodhi CLI tools, by integrating the Makefile and some of his tools we should be able to do some really slick, perhaps even at build time. -Mike From dbhole at redhat.com Wed Sep 5 20:02:41 2007 From: dbhole at redhat.com (Deepak Bhole) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:02:41 -0400 Subject: maven... In-Reply-To: <1188601787.985.260.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <46D8118B.4020109@linux-kernel.at> <1188592035.7886.23.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <1188601787.985.260.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1189022561.19921.65.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 00:09 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 16:27 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote: > > By biggest worry is ppc. Last time it was tried, there were failures > > specific to ppc. While it can be exclude arch'd, I would really like to > > avoid doing that. > > > > Here is the ppc bug for the record: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=239123 > > I went rushing to check on that... and then realised you meant ppc64, > not ppc. We keep the ppc ExcludeArch list fairly much empty, but ppc64 > userspace is less of a priority (since we actually run everything 32-bit > even on ppc64 hardware, unless there's some real _benefit_ to using > 64-bit userspace). > Ah sorry, I should have clarified that; Yes, it is ppc64 that is an issue. ppc itself is fine. I did a scratch build earlier and it went through fine: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=144642 I will build maven in F8 with ExcludeArch for ppc64 for the time being. > I had a brief look, but even with bootstrap mode enabled it seems to > require maven-* packages which aren't available. > I have built the base dependencies and maven2 should be buildable in bootstrap mode now (set _with_bootstrap to 1 in the spec file). Building in ppc64 for F8 still gives an error btw: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log > If you need an account on a suitable machine to poke at this, let me > have a SSH public key. > I am busy with some other stuff for the next little while, but I may take you up on the offer when I can get around to it :) In the mean time, since maven2 is buildable on ppc, it will be available as ppc arch on ppc64 in F8 -- there is no compelling reason that I can think of that necessitates a ppc64 version at this time. Cheers, Deepak From jonathan.underwood at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 21:20:08 2007 From: jonathan.underwood at gmail.com (Jonathan Underwood) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:20:08 +0100 Subject: mailinglists reorganization (was: Re: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers) In-Reply-To: <46DE3D50.5070302@leemhuis.info> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> <46DE3D50.5070302@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <645d17210709051420g3d7967a3g433d71fab070d16f@mail.gmail.com> On 05/09/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 04.09.2007 22:18, Till Maas wrote: > > On Di September 4 2007, Christopher Aillon wrote: > > > >> Apparently, asking this list was the wrong way to get things done. How > >> do we really do this? Does this need to be proposed to some group? > >> Does this need to come up for vote at some meeting? How do we actually > >> cut the life support here? > > > > Afaik should FESCO decision and knurd know more, because he proposed a > > reorganization of the mailinglists a long time ago. > > Well, the last time was about six weeks ago on fab-list. But I stopped > to work further on this (and told the board about it in private) after > that because > [Thorsten's frustrations snipped] Thorsten - I understand your frustrations after you've put so much energy into coming up with a clear plan for the list organization only to have it bounced around endlessly. But, without getting into the reorganization of all the lists, it seems that closing fedora-maintainers wasn't a point of contention - is that correct? That being so, perhaps we should push this one step forward, before chipping away at the rest of the big rock? J. From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Sep 5 21:29:57 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:29:57 -0400 Subject: mailinglists reorganization (was: Re: This list isn't working out. Or, why do we have fedora-devel and fedora-maintainers) In-Reply-To: <645d17210709051420g3d7967a3g433d71fab070d16f@mail.gmail.com> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> <46DE3D50.5070302@leemhuis.info> <645d17210709051420g3d7967a3g433d71fab070d16f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070905172957.5dc2e382@mentok.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:20:08 +0100 "Jonathan Underwood" wrote: > But, without getting into the reorganization of all the lists, it > seems that closing fedora-maintainers wasn't a point of contention - > is that correct? That being so, perhaps we should push this one step > forward, before chipping away at the rest of the big rock? I will be pushing this topic through FESCo tomorrow. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Sep 6 04:38:04 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:38:04 +0200 Subject: mailinglists reorganization In-Reply-To: <645d17210709051420g3d7967a3g433d71fab070d16f@mail.gmail.com> References: <645d17210708211029y4717366pf927665eb37ec8e6@mail.gmail.com> <20070821132017.3fb1500f@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> <46DDBAA6.6060608@redhat.com> <200709042218.03534.opensource@till.name> <46DE3D50.5070302@leemhuis.info> <645d17210709051420g3d7967a3g433d71fab070d16f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46DF842C.8050009@leemhuis.info> On 05.09.2007 23:20, Jonathan Underwood wrote: > On 05/09/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > [...] > But, without getting into the reorganization of all the lists, it > seems that closing fedora-maintainers wasn't a point of contention - > is that correct? That being so, perhaps we should push this one step > forward, before chipping away at the rest of the big rock? Sure -- that was one reasons why I wrote the mail, to make sure nobody waits for reorganization. CU knurd From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 6 19:45:46 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:45:46 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 Message-ID: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> Hi all, fedora-maintainers-list is going to be closed as discussed in https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2007-August/msg00530.html and agreed on by FESCo at the 2007-09-06 meeting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070906 The plan is to close the fedora-maintainers-list on 2007-09-10. The fedora-devel-list will be the mailing that acts as the direct successor for the fedora-maintainers-list. To subscribe please go to https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list Thanks, /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Sep 6 20:19:42 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:19:42 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <20070906161942.6b704f9e@mentok.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:45:46 -0400 Brian Pepple wrote: > The plan is to close the fedora-maintainers-list on 2007-09-10. The > fedora-devel-list will be the mailing that acts as the direct > successor for the fedora-maintainers-list. To subscribe please go to > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list Also note the existence of 'fedora-devel-announce' which is an announcement list where important development related announcements will be sent to. This is designed to be low traffic (it's moderated). Posts to this list are echoed to fedora-devel-list so it is not necessary to subscribe to both. Discussion of items posted to fedora-devel-announce will happen on fedora-devel-list. https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-announce -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opensource at till.name Thu Sep 6 20:26:02 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:26:02 +0200 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> On Do September 6 2007, Brian Pepple wrote: > fedora-maintainers-list is going to be closed as discussed in Don't forget to close this list, too. https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers-readonly Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 6 20:26:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:56:30 +0530 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <46E06276.4080104@fedoraproject.org> Till Maas wrote: > On Do September 6 2007, Brian Pepple wrote: > >> fedora-maintainers-list is going to be closed as discussed in > > Don't forget to close this list, too. > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers-readonly Can I update all the relevant wiki pages to point to fedora-devel instead? Rahul From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 6 20:32:34 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:32:34 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <46E06276.4080104@fedoraproject.org> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> <46E06276.4080104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1189110754.24113.39.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 01:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Can I update all the relevant wiki pages to point to fedora-devel instead? > Rahul, definitely. I would appreciate it a lot if you could, since it save me the trouble of doing it. Thanks, /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 6 21:05:10 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:35:10 +0530 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189110754.24113.39.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> <46E06276.4080104@fedoraproject.org> <1189110754.24113.39.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <46E06B86.4040905@fedoraproject.org> Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 01:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Can I update all the relevant wiki pages to point to fedora-devel instead? >> > > Rahul, definitely. I would appreciate it a lot if you could, since it > save me the trouble of doing it. > > Thanks, Done. Note that FESCo meetings are still posted in the Extras/ name space and policy pages are still located there. Both of these need to move away from these to newer locations and updated depending on the decision of FESCo. I left it unfinished when I updated a number of wiki pages after the core/extras merge since there was concerns expressed of overstepping boundaries. If anyone can merge the archives of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list, that might be useful for future searches. Rahul From opensource at till.name Thu Sep 6 21:28:18 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:28:18 +0200 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <46E06B86.4040905@fedoraproject.org> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189110754.24113.39.camel@kennedy> <46E06B86.4040905@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200709062328.24196.opensource@till.name> On Do September 6 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > If anyone can merge the archives of fedora-maintainers and > fedora-devel-list, that might be useful for future searches. If this is possible, imho the extras list should be added, too. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 22:00:39 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:00:39 -0700 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <46E06B86.4040905@fedoraproject.org> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <200709062226.03255.opensource@till.name> <46E06276.4080104@fedoraproject.org> <1189110754.24113.39.camel@kennedy> <46E06B86.4040905@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46E07887.7050808@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Brian Pepple wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 01:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Can I update all the relevant wiki pages to point to fedora-devel >>> instead? >>> >> >> Rahul, definitely. I would appreciate it a lot if you could, since it >> save me the trouble of doing it. >> >> Thanks, > > Done. I just changed http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem2 to say: "Auto subscribe new packagers to the fedora-devel-announce when their cvsextras status is approved." as I think that matches what we've discussed on the list before. Feel free to change it back if it actually should be fedora-devel-list. - -Toshio -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG4HiHX6yAic2E7kgRAuGpAKCXeLfFdcVSKFBIZScEuzr4FGwp7gCfQspk /qwE7VeL8/d+dwB+7n2dE/g= =mXSU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bnocera at redhat.com Fri Sep 7 11:04:33 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:04:33 +0100 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 15:45 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: > Hi all, > > fedora-maintainers-list is going to be closed as discussed in > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2007-August/msg00530.html > > and agreed on by FESCo at the 2007-09-06 meeting: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070906 > > The plan is to close the fedora-maintainers-list on 2007-09-10. The > fedora-devel-list will be the mailing that acts as the direct successor > for the fedora-maintainers-list. To subscribe please go to > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list I hope subscribing to fedora-devel-list isn't compulsory, I receive far enough e-mails already. Could you migrate the current subscribers of this list to fedora-devel-announce? Cheers From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Sep 7 12:04:35 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:04:35 -0500 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <20070907070435.62695962@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:04:33 +0100 Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 15:45 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > fedora-maintainers-list is going to be closed as discussed in > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2007-August/msg00530.html > > > > and agreed on by FESCo at the 2007-09-06 meeting: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070906 > > > > The plan is to close the fedora-maintainers-list on 2007-09-10. The > > fedora-devel-list will be the mailing that acts as the direct successor > > for the fedora-maintainers-list. To subscribe please go to > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > I hope subscribing to fedora-devel-list isn't compulsory, I receive far > enough e-mails already. It's not. josh From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 7 12:37:54 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:37:54 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 12:04 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > I hope subscribing to fedora-devel-list isn't compulsory, I receive far > enough e-mails already. No, it's not mandatory. > Could you migrate the current subscribers of this list to > fedora-devel-announce? I believe they already are, but I'll check to make sure that's true. Later, /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From caillon at redhat.com Fri Sep 7 17:16:20 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:16:20 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <46E18764.9080404@redhat.com> Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 12:04 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: >> >> I hope subscribing to fedora-devel-list isn't compulsory, I receive far >> enough e-mails already. > > No, it's not mandatory. > >> Could you migrate the current subscribers of this list to >> fedora-devel-announce? > > I believe they already are, but I'll check to make sure that's true. As -devel-announce forwards to -devel, please don't subscribe those that are on both -maintainers and -devel to -devel-announce. From opensource at till.name Fri Sep 7 19:35:59 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:35:59 +0200 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <200709072136.04896.opensource@till.name> On Fr September 7 2007, Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 12:04 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > I hope subscribing to fedora-devel-list isn't compulsory, I receive far > > enough e-mails already. > > No, it's not mandatory. Is this an official decission? Rahul thought it is mandatory[1] and Toshio was not sure. Regards, Till [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join?action=diff&rev2=159&rev1=157 [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2007-September/msg00097.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Sep 7 19:36:23 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:36:23 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <200709072136.04896.opensource@till.name> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> <200709072136.04896.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:35:59 +0200 Till Maas wrote: > Is this an official decission? Rahul thought it is mandatory[1] and > Toshio was not sure. If it is, I feel that fedora-devel-announce should be mandatory/automatic, but fedora-devel itself would be optional (but encouraged). -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 7 20:04:37 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:04:37 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <1189163073.26050.150.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1189168674.3847.7.camel@kennedy> <200709072136.04896.opensource@till.name> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 15:36 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:35:59 +0200 > Till Maas wrote: > > > Is this an official decission? Rahul thought it is mandatory[1] and > > Toshio was not sure. > > > If it is, I feel that fedora-devel-announce should be > mandatory/automatic, but fedora-devel itself would be optional (but > encouraged). Right. We weren't planning on having the high volume list (fedora-devel) be mandatory. /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From opensource at till.name Fri Sep 7 20:09:48 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:09:48 +0200 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> On Fr September 7 2007, Brian Pepple wrote: > Right. We weren't planning on having the high volume list > (fedora-devel) be mandatory. What about fedora-extras-commits at redhat.com? It is also mandatory according to the wiki but imho this should not be needed anymore, because ACL and Ownership is managed with the PackageDB and everyone should get an e-mail when something in ones package branch is changed. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 7 20:33:25 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:33:25 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> Message-ID: <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 22:09 +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > What about fedora-extras-commits at redhat.com? It is also mandatory according to > the wiki but imho this should not be needed anymore, because ACL and > Ownership is managed with the PackageDB and everyone should get an e-mail > when something in ones package branch is changed. I don't think the PackageDB sends out e-mails for CVS commits done to a package yet, though I could be wrong. /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From katzj at redhat.com Fri Sep 7 20:37:59 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:37:59 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <1189197479.4511.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 16:33 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 22:09 +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > What about fedora-extras-commits at redhat.com? It is also mandatory according to > > the wiki but imho this should not be needed anymore, because ACL and > > Ownership is managed with the PackageDB and everyone should get an e-mail > > when something in ones package branch is changed. > > I don't think the PackageDB sends out e-mails for CVS commits done to a > package yet, though I could be wrong. PackageDB itself doesn't, but mails should get sent to anyone with the watchcommits bit for all CVS commits. Jeremy From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Sep 7 20:40:12 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:40:12 -0500 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <20070907154012.3b2c41c8@weaponx.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:33:25 -0400 Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 22:09 +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > > > What about fedora-extras-commits at redhat.com? It is also mandatory according to > > the wiki but imho this should not be needed anymore, because ACL and > > Ownership is managed with the PackageDB and everyone should get an e-mail > > when something in ones package branch is changed. > > I don't think the PackageDB sends out e-mails for CVS commits done to a > package yet, though I could be wrong. I get commit emails josh From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 7 20:47:59 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:47:59 -0400 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189197479.4511.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> <1189197479.4511.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1189198079.1051.15.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 16:37 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 16:33 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: > > > > I don't think the PackageDB sends out e-mails for CVS commits done to a > > package yet, though I could be wrong. > > PackageDB itself doesn't, but mails should get sent to anyone with the > watchcommits bit for all CVS commits. In that case, I also agree the it shouldn't be mandatory to join the cvs-commit list. /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Sep 7 21:12:53 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 02:42:53 +0530 Subject: PLEASE READ: This list is going to be closed end on 2007-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1189198079.1051.15.camel@kennedy> References: <1189107946.24113.37.camel@kennedy> <20070907153623.2b8d5991@mentok.boston.redhat.com> <1189195477.1051.5.camel@kennedy> <200709072209.48999.opensource@till.name> <1189197205.1051.12.camel@kennedy> <1189197479.4511.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1189198079.1051.15.camel@kennedy> Message-ID: <46E1BED5.7000109@fedoraproject.org> Brian Pepple wrote: > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 16:37 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 16:33 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: >>> I don't think the PackageDB sends out e-mails for CVS commits done to a >>> package yet, though I could be wrong. >> PackageDB itself doesn't, but mails should get sent to anyone with the >> watchcommits bit for all CVS commits. > > In that case, I also agree the it shouldn't be mandatory to join the > cvs-commit list. I have clarified this information in the wiki now. Rahul From ville.skytta at iki.fi Sat Sep 15 08:26:45 2007 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?utf-8?q?Skytt=C3=A4?=) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:26:45 +0300 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> Message-ID: <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: > > Ville Skytt? wrote : > > > No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the > > > gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. > > > > I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, > > and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop > > background, so I'd really like to see them stay. > > > > I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can > > be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses > > get added or clarified. > > Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple > of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're > inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay > ;) I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from F8. From gilboad at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 05:03:53 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:03:53 +0200 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> Message-ID: <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: > > On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: > > > Ville Skytt? wrote : > > > > No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the > > > > gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. > > > > > > I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, > > > and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop > > > background, so I'd really like to see them stay. > > > > > > I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can > > > be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses > > > get added or clarified. > > > > Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple > > of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're > > inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay > > ;) > > I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes > maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from > F8. I'm on rather a tight schedule this week... but unless someone else steps in, I'll take it under my wings. - Gilboa From ville.skytta at iki.fi Sun Sep 16 08:06:45 2007 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?iso-8859-1?q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:06:45 +0300 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <200709161106.45949.ville.skytta@iki.fi> On Sunday 16 September 2007, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > > > > I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone > > takes maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for > > removal from F8. > > I'm on rather a tight schedule this week... but unless someone else > steps in, I'll take it under my wings. Just so that you know what you're up against: the package contains 197 skins of which only 2 (keramik and prime_23) ship with any kind of a license notice. The upstream tarball or upstream distribution site do not contain any copyright info either, so I suppose you'd need to check the license of 195 skins with their authors, and the majority of included skin tarballs do not even contain information about their author... From gilboad at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 09:17:18 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:17:18 +0200 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <200709161106.45949.ville.skytta@iki.fi> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <200709161106.45949.ville.skytta@iki.fi> Message-ID: <1189934238.19013.2.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 11:06 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Sunday 16 September 2007, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > > > > > > I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone > > > takes maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for > > > removal from F8. > > > > I'm on rather a tight schedule this week... but unless someone else > > steps in, I'll take it under my wings. > > Just so that you know what you're up against: the package contains 197 skins > of which only 2 (keramik and prime_23) ship with any kind of a license > notice. The upstream tarball or upstream distribution site do not contain > any copyright info either, so I suppose you'd need to check the license of > 195 skins with their authors, and the majority of included skin tarballs do > not even contain information about their author... Thanks for scaring the bejesus out of me. What's the going practice when license is unknown? ... Plus, can I take my sweet time checking it or is it required by F8-release? - Gilboa From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Sep 16 09:52:34 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:22:34 +0530 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <1189934238.19013.2.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <200709161106.45949.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189934238.19013.2.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <46ECFCE2.3090803@fedoraproject.org> Gilboa Davara wrote: > Thanks for scaring the bejesus out of me. > What's the going practice when license is unknown? Ideally we should clarify licensing information asap or stop distribution. > ... Plus, can I take my sweet time checking it or is it required by > F8-release? We would be in trouble even today if any authors questions us on distributing their content without any written rights to do so. Considering the amount of work required to clarify such licensing details across so many themes, you should probably let the package get orphaned and import it later when the licensing details are clarified which you might consider doing along with other distribution maintainers or strip down the package immediately to themes with clear licenses and add more continuously when you get the licenses sorted out. Rahul From gilboad at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 11:57:47 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:57:47 +0200 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <46ECFCE2.3090803@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189919033.18191.103.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <200709161106.45949.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189934238.19013.2.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <46ECFCE2.3090803@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1189943867.24631.3.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 15:22 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > Thanks for scaring the bejesus out of me. > > What's the going practice when license is unknown? > > Ideally we should clarify licensing information asap or stop distribution. > > > ... Plus, can I take my sweet time checking it or is it required by > > F8-release? > > We would be in trouble even today if any authors questions us on > distributing their content without any written rights to do so. > Considering the amount of work required to clarify such licensing > details across so many themes, you should probably let the package get > orphaned and import it later when the licensing details are clarified > which you might consider doing along with other distribution maintainers > or strip down the package immediately to themes with clear licenses and > add more continuously when you get the licenses sorted out. > > Rahul OK. Did anyone contact gkrellm.org? - Gilboa From gilboad at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 12:06:16 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:06:16 +0200 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> Message-ID: <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: > > On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: > > > Ville Skytt? wrote : > > > > No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the > > > > gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. > > > > > > I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, > > > and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop > > > background, so I'd really like to see them stay. > > > > > > I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can > > > be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses > > > get added or clarified. > > > > Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple > > of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're > > inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay > > ;) > > I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes > maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from > F8. Speaking of which, who's the maintainer of gkrellm? - Gilboa From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sun Sep 16 12:48:17 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:48:17 +0200 Subject: gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <46ED2611.10807@hhs.nl> Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: >> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: >>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: >>>> Ville Skytt? wrote : >>>>> No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the >>>>> gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. >>>> I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, >>>> and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop >>>> background, so I'd really like to see them stay. >>>> >>>> I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can >>>> be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses >>>> get added or clarified. >>> Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple >>> of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're >>> inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay >>> ;) >> I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes >> maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from >> F8. > > Speaking of which, who's the maintainer of gkrellm? > That would be me, but I fail to see how that is relevant, Regards, Hans From gilboad at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 13:06:32 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:06:32 +0200 Subject: [OT] gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <46ED2611.10807@hhs.nl> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <46ED2611.10807@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1189947992.24631.9.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 14:48 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > >> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: > >>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: > >>>> Ville Skytt? wrote : > >>>>> No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the > >>>>> gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. > >>>> I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, > >>>> and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop > >>>> background, so I'd really like to see them stay. > >>>> > >>>> I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can > >>>> be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses > >>>> get added or clarified. > >>> Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple > >>> of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're > >>> inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay > >>> ;) > >> I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes > >> maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from > >> F8. > > > > Speaking of which, who's the maintainer of gkrellm? > > > > That would be me, but I fail to see how that is relevant, Sorry. I should have marked my question with a visible OT. Just wanted to point out that gkrellm 2.3 is out ;) Sorry for the miss-understanding, - Gilboa From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sun Sep 16 18:16:12 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:16:12 +0200 Subject: [OT] gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <1189947992.24631.9.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <46ED2611.10807@hhs.nl> <1189947992.24631.9.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <46ED72EC.4070407@hhs.nl> Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 14:48 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: >> Gilboa Davara wrote: >>> On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: >>>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: >>>>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: >>>>>> Ville Skytt? wrote : >>>>>>> No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the >>>>>>> gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. >>>>>> I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, >>>>>> and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop >>>>>> background, so I'd really like to see them stay. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can >>>>>> be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses >>>>>> get added or clarified. >>>>> Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple >>>>> of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're >>>>> inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay >>>>> ;) >>>> I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes >>>> maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from >>>> F8. >>> Speaking of which, who's the maintainer of gkrellm? >>> >> That would be me, but I fail to see how that is relevant, > > Sorry. I should have marked my question with a visible OT. > Just wanted to point out that gkrellm 2.3 is out ;) > I know, it has been available in development / RawHide for quite a while now. Regards, Hans From gilboad at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 10:06:12 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:06:12 +0200 Subject: [OT] gkrellm-themes orphaned In-Reply-To: <46ED72EC.4070407@hhs.nl> References: <20070823123530.42b0c69b@python3.es.egwn.lan> <20070823173146.685b4312@python3.es.egwn.lan> <200708232153.40410.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <200709151126.46462.ville.skytta@iki.fi> <1189944376.24631.5.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <46ED2611.10807@hhs.nl> <1189947992.24631.9.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <46ED72EC.4070407@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1190023572.12515.1.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 20:16 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 14:48 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > >> Gilboa Davara wrote: > >>> On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 11:26 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > >>>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Ville Skytt? wrote: > >>>>> On Thursday 23 August 2007, Matthias Saou wrote: > >>>>>> Ville Skytt? wrote : > >>>>>>> No objections. In fact, the exact same thing applies to the > >>>>>>> gkrellm-themes package, and I plan to invoke the same process for it. > >>>>>> I don't use the xmms-skins anymore, but I definitely still use gkrellm, > >>>>>> and always cycle through all the themes when I change desktop > >>>>>> background, so I'd really like to see them stay. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'll try to have a look at gkrellm-themes and see if at least a few can > >>>>>> be kept, then add some more from there little by little once licenses > >>>>>> get added or clarified. > >>>>> Go ahead and assign the package yourself if you like. There are a couple > >>>>> of skins that do have some copyright notices included, and if you're > >>>>> inclined to look for more, I wouldn't mind it if ShinyMetal-Blue would stay > >>>>> ;) > >>>> I did not hear back, so I have orphaned gkrellm-themes. Unless someone takes > >>>> maintainership by let's say next Friday, will EOL it and ask for removal from > >>>> F8. > >>> Speaking of which, who's the maintainer of gkrellm? > >>> > >> That would be me, but I fail to see how that is relevant, > > > > Sorry. I should have marked my question with a visible OT. > > Just wanted to point out that gkrellm 2.3 is out ;) > > > > I know, it has been available in development / RawHide for quite a while now. > > Regards, > > Hans Oh... Thanks. Didn't see it. Will this update make it's way down to F7/FC6 and, EPEL? - Gilboa From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Sep 17 10:08:05 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:08:05 +0200 Subject: The open() system call in f8 really broken... In-Reply-To: <46C46F6D.8040601@RedHat.com> References: <46C3A0AA.7090106@RedHat.com> <20070816093959.GB2070@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <46C45B48.3000607@RedHat.com> <20070816142437.GA2063@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <46C4605B.1000407@RedHat.com> <46C461C6.5080302@linux-kernel.at> <46C46558.1000905@RedHat.com> <46C4685F.8080601@linux-kernel.at> <46C46A66.8060300@RedHat.com> <20070816152729.GD2063@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <46C46F6D.8040601@RedHat.com> Message-ID: <20070917120805.6ef7a689@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:38:21 -0400, Steve Dickson wrote: > > If you let it through, it can create a file with random mode. Say > > if a root process creates a file with 4777 perms, do you really > > want to risk that while that process is scheduled away somebody > > copies a shell into that file and runs it? > Again.. just fail the open and put the decision of what to do in the > hands of the app... where it belongs... I agree with that. Tell the application "Sorry Dave, I can't let you do that", and let the application deal with that. If the application has no proper error handling for open calls, that is definitely the applications problem. The open call could have failed for other reasons, too. I do not see how creat-without-mode is a fundamentally different case from, for example, insufficient permissions. The applications tries something it is not allowed to do, so fail the call (and print fat, ugly warnings to the console), and let the application deal with the consequences. From oliver at linux-kernel.at Mon Sep 17 12:42:34 2007 From: oliver at linux-kernel.at (Oliver Falk) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:42:34 +0200 Subject: maven... In-Reply-To: <1189022561.19921.65.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> References: <46D8118B.4020109@linux-kernel.at> <1188592035.7886.23.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <1188601787.985.260.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1189022561.19921.65.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> Message-ID: <46EE763A.7030709@linux-kernel.at> On 09/05/2007 10:02 PM, Deepak Bhole wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 00:09 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 16:27 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote: >>> By biggest worry is ppc. Last time it was tried, there were failures >>> specific to ppc. While it can be exclude arch'd, I would really like to >>> avoid doing that. >>> >>> Here is the ppc bug for the record: >>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=239123 >> I went rushing to check on that... and then realised you meant ppc64, >> not ppc. We keep the ppc ExcludeArch list fairly much empty, but ppc64 >> userspace is less of a priority (since we actually run everything 32-bit >> even on ppc64 hardware, unless there's some real _benefit_ to using >> 64-bit userspace). >> > > Ah sorry, I should have clarified that; Yes, it is ppc64 that is an > issue. ppc itself is fine. I did a scratch build earlier and it went > through fine: > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=144642 > > I will build maven in F8 with ExcludeArch for ppc64 for the time being. > > >> I had a brief look, but even with bootstrap mode enabled it seems to >> require maven-* packages which aren't available. >> > > I have built the base dependencies and maven2 should be buildable in > bootstrap mode now (set _with_bootstrap to 1 in the spec file). Building > in ppc64 for F8 still gives an error btw: > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log > >> If you need an account on a suitable machine to poke at this, let me >> have a SSH public key. >> > > I am busy with some other stuff for the next little while, but I may > take you up on the offer when I can get around to it :) In the mean > time, since maven2 is buildable on ppc, it will be available as ppc arch > on ppc64 in F8 -- there is no compelling reason that I can think of that > necessitates a ppc64 version at this time. What exactly is the problem with maven on ppc64? Maybe I have the same problem with maven on alpha :-) -of From dbhole at redhat.com Mon Sep 17 13:59:08 2007 From: dbhole at redhat.com (Deepak Bhole) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:59:08 -0400 Subject: maven... In-Reply-To: <46EE763A.7030709@linux-kernel.at> References: <46D8118B.4020109@linux-kernel.at> <1188592035.7886.23.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <1188601787.985.260.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1189022561.19921.65.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <46EE763A.7030709@linux-kernel.at> Message-ID: <20070917135907.GA3070@redhat.com> * Oliver Falk [2007-09-17 08:43]: > On 09/05/2007 10:02 PM, Deepak Bhole wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 00:09 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > >> On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 16:27 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote: > >>> By biggest worry is ppc. Last time it was tried, there were failures > >>> specific to ppc. While it can be exclude arch'd, I would really like to > >>> avoid doing that. > >>> > >>> Here is the ppc bug for the record: > >>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=239123 > >> I went rushing to check on that... and then realised you meant ppc64, > >> not ppc. We keep the ppc ExcludeArch list fairly much empty, but ppc64 > >> userspace is less of a priority (since we actually run everything 32-bit > >> even on ppc64 hardware, unless there's some real _benefit_ to using > >> 64-bit userspace). > >> > > > > Ah sorry, I should have clarified that; Yes, it is ppc64 that is an > > issue. ppc itself is fine. I did a scratch build earlier and it went > > through fine: > > > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=144642 > > > > I will build maven in F8 with ExcludeArch for ppc64 for the time being. > > > > > >> I had a brief look, but even with bootstrap mode enabled it seems to > >> require maven-* packages which aren't available. > >> > > > > I have built the base dependencies and maven2 should be buildable in > > bootstrap mode now (set _with_bootstrap to 1 in the spec file). Building > > in ppc64 for F8 still gives an error btw: > > > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log > > > >> If you need an account on a suitable machine to poke at this, let me > >> have a SSH public key. > >> > > > > I am busy with some other stuff for the next little while, but I may > > take you up on the offer when I can get around to it :) In the mean > > time, since maven2 is buildable on ppc, it will be available as ppc arch > > on ppc64 in F8 -- there is no compelling reason that I can think of that > > necessitates a ppc64 version at this time. > > What exactly is the problem with maven on ppc64? Maybe I have the same > problem with maven on alpha :-) > > -of > The java process exits with error code 255 despite successfully building maven2, on ppc64. This behaviour is unique to ppc64, and does not occur on other archs. You can see the build log for such a build here: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log I can reliably reproduce this on other ppc64 boxes when I try to build maven2. However, narrowing it down to a smaller testcase is proving more cumbersome than I expected :/ Deepak > -- > Fedora-maintainers mailing list > Fedora-maintainers at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers From oliver at linux-kernel.at Mon Sep 17 14:10:27 2007 From: oliver at linux-kernel.at (Oliver Falk) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:10:27 +0200 Subject: maven... In-Reply-To: <20070917135907.GA3070@redhat.com> References: <46D8118B.4020109@linux-kernel.at> <1188592035.7886.23.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <1188601787.985.260.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <1189022561.19921.65.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <46EE763A.7030709@linux-kernel.at> <20070917135907.GA3070@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46EE8AD3.7040708@linux-kernel.at> On 09/17/2007 03:59 PM, Deepak Bhole wrote: > * Oliver Falk [2007-09-17 08:43]: >> On 09/05/2007 10:02 PM, Deepak Bhole wrote: >>> On Sat, 2007-09-01 at 00:09 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 16:27 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote: >>>>> By biggest worry is ppc. Last time it was tried, there were failures >>>>> specific to ppc. While it can be exclude arch'd, I would really like to >>>>> avoid doing that. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the ppc bug for the record: >>>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=239123 >>>> I went rushing to check on that... and then realised you meant ppc64, >>>> not ppc. We keep the ppc ExcludeArch list fairly much empty, but ppc64 >>>> userspace is less of a priority (since we actually run everything 32-bit >>>> even on ppc64 hardware, unless there's some real _benefit_ to using >>>> 64-bit userspace). >>>> >>> Ah sorry, I should have clarified that; Yes, it is ppc64 that is an >>> issue. ppc itself is fine. I did a scratch build earlier and it went >>> through fine: >>> >>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=144642 >>> >>> I will build maven in F8 with ExcludeArch for ppc64 for the time being. >>> >>> >>>> I had a brief look, but even with bootstrap mode enabled it seems to >>>> require maven-* packages which aren't available. >>>> >>> I have built the base dependencies and maven2 should be buildable in >>> bootstrap mode now (set _with_bootstrap to 1 in the spec file). Building >>> in ppc64 for F8 still gives an error btw: >>> >>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log >>> >>>> If you need an account on a suitable machine to poke at this, let me >>>> have a SSH public key. >>>> >>> I am busy with some other stuff for the next little while, but I may >>> take you up on the offer when I can get around to it :) In the mean >>> time, since maven2 is buildable on ppc, it will be available as ppc arch >>> on ppc64 in F8 -- there is no compelling reason that I can think of that >>> necessitates a ppc64 version at this time. >> What exactly is the problem with maven on ppc64? Maybe I have the same >> problem with maven on alpha :-) >> >> -of >> > > The java process exits with error code 255 despite successfully building > maven2, on ppc64. This behaviour is unique to ppc64, and does not occur on > other archs. You can see the build log for such a build here: > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=144590&name=build.log > > I can reliably reproduce this on other ppc64 boxes when I try to build > maven2. However, narrowing it down to a smaller testcase is proving more > cumbersome than I expected :/ OK. Not similar to mine - which is also 'funny': Building project in /home/oliver/cvs/devel/maven2/maven2/maven2/maven-profile ------------------------------------------------------------------ Cleaning /home/oliver/cvs/devel/maven2/maven2/maven2/maven-profile/target... Model exists! Checking for dependencies ... Generating model bindings for version '1.0.0' from '/home/oliver/cvs/devel/maven2/maven2/maven2/maven-profile/profiles.mdo' [INFO] Setting property: classpath.resource.loader.class => 'org.codehaus.plexus.velocity.ContextClassLoaderResourceLoader'. [INFO] Setting property: resource.manager.logwhenfound => 'false'. [INFO] Setting property: velocimacro.messages.on => 'false'. [INFO] Setting property: resource.loader => 'classpath'. ./bootstrap.sh: line 47: 11961 Illegal instruction $JAVACMD $MAVEN_OPTS -jar bootstrap/bootstrap-installer/target/bootstrap-installer.jar --prefix=$PREFIX $ARGS + ret=132 + '[' 132 '!=' 0 ']' + exit 132 -of