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Re: Could tthere be an update iso distribution



On 3/16/06, Dan Thurman <dant cdkkt com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-03-16 at 11:48 -0700, jeff wrote:
> > Daniel B. Thurman wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2006-03-16 at 10:48 -0700, jeff wrote:
> > >
> > >>Dan Thurman wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>But regarding this release, because Fedora has a program (called kudzu)
> > >>>that is behaving ungracefully, I would say that allowing this release to
> > >>>proceed without a fix is just incredulous to me because it is FEDORA's
> > >>>PROBLEM (even if it was caused by the vendor), but since FEDORA's kuzdu
> > >>>HANGS UMGRACEFULLY, does not BYPASS the problem device or driver, it is
> > >>>IMHO a flaw in the code or at least in the design.
> > >>
> > >>I don't get the rant here. I'm sure there will be an updated kudzu soon
> > >>after the release. Why should the whole thing be held up because your
> > >>proprietary stuff doesn't work? FC5tests have been working great for me.
> > >>I'm glad they're not holding it up.
> > >>
> > >>-Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, easy for you to say for yourself but if you had a problem such that
> > > you cannot install FC5 because you had a "proprietary" (or misbehaving)
> > > driver, then I am sure I would be hearing your rants.  To each their
> > > own, right? :-(
> >
> > You can't install at all?
> >
> > I thought it was the problem came up after you installed the proprietary
> > nvidia driver. You could just disable kudzu, if that's the case.

As far as I know, the only issues with Kudzu have not  been with
proprietary drivers.  The one I experienced was on x86_64 having an
nVidia card (using the nv driver).  The other one is an issue with Xen
kernels.

> It is a software problem and it is called kudzu.  I installed NO DRIVERS
> as kudzu just tries to hardware probe devices and in the case of nvidia,
> it is the chip-set on my motherboard that somehow is causing kudzu to
> HANG.  I suspect that kuzdu has a BUG, either by code or by design as
> it should NOT HANG UNGRACEFULLY!  So, my point is, is that if some other
> devices (be it software or hardware) has any symptoms mimicing nvidia
> then it too will cause kudzu to hang, possibly.  Just because it SEEMS
> like a nvidia problem, the fact is, that kudzu should NOT HANG as it
> is a MAJOR PROGRAM during the boot process!  If you happen to have a
> device that does this, should you rant too, to be fair?

Dan, are you using a Xen kernel?  If so, then that is the problem and
it is known.  If not, then this is new and you should bugzilla it with
plenty of detail.

> Yes,  I bypass kudzu, as I am replying to this email message via FC5T3,
> so yes I can get by without kudzu for now, but who's to say that some
> other poor sap won't can has not the brains to figure out how to bypass
> kudzu and so that rant will start coming out again.

This also needs to  be clearly documented in the release notes: kudzu
does not currently work correctly when using a Xen kernel.  That might
at least mitigate the rants.  Or at least we can say, "Did you read
the release notes?  No, well please do."

> Seems like FC4 all over again.  History just might repeat itself
> (again!)

It's too late for FC5, but we should learn from things for FC6 and
beyond.  We will never be able to make everything work perfectly for
everyone.  I have yet to have any installation issues with my
hardware, but that is not the case for everyone.  It would be nice,
though for releases to be thoroughly tested enough that we don't have
any show-stopper installation bugs.

Have we thought about doing a candidate test release such that if no
one found any major issues with those ISOs then *those exact* ISOs are
released as the next Fedora?  Would that take too long?

Jonathan


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