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Re: Could tthere be an update iso distribution
- From: "Mike A. Harris" <mharris mharris ca>
- To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases <fedora-test-list redhat com>
- Subject: Re: Could tthere be an update iso distribution
- Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:08:54 -0500
Leslie Satenstein wrote:
With kudzu broken, potential keyboard problems, as well as the 2054
kernel for nvidia, I see no reason to download the first release.
Why push broken software unless a new iso in a very short time
thereafter(2 weeks) is released.
That's easy enough to answer. All software has bugs in it, or at
a bare minimum - most software does. The software included in
Fedora Core is no exception, and never has been. Every single
OS release ever made by Red Hat, or for that matter by Debian,
SuSE, Mandrake, Sun Microsystems, Microsoft, Apple, or any other
OS or distribution you could care to name, has shipped software
which contains bugs.
Some of the bugs are minor, while other bugs are larger in impact.
Bugs are a simple fact of life in computer software, and there's
really no alternative than to live with that fact.
It is entirely possible in theory, to delay any of the above
operating system's release dates, to then "go and fix that one
more critical bug", but after doing so, there is at least 1, and
more likely 100 or more other "critical" bugs that aren't fixed
also. Why not fix them too?
The reason why, is that you then delay your OS release by another
2 weeks, then another, then a month, and eventually Debian users
start chastizing you for trying to clone the Debian release model.
That was a joke. Ok, only partly a joke.
Seriously though, the release just gets delayed and delayed, and
one user after another jumps on the bandwagon claiming "You fixed
critical issue #12345, but *MY* issue which is obviously much
worse of a problem is not fixed! You must delay and fix my issue
also!". After 1000 users do this, you end up not releasing an
operating system ever period, because there is _always_ another
critical bug left in the OS.
There will _always_ be bugs in the OS which are frustrating to
someone out there. Always be bugs to which someone can't believe
we could possibly have been so careless to release the OS without
fixing at _least_ that one issue. But again, there isn't one
person out there thinking that. There are 10000 people out there
thinking that, and each of them is thinking about a different issue.
Delaying the OS to fix every bug that "someone" out there will
be frustrated about, or shocked senselessly that we could possibly
have released without delaying to fix their issue, really _DOES_
mean "Never ever ship an OS ever."
That is just a straight fact - wether or not everyone accepts it
or not. The OS _WILL_ always ship with bugs, some known ahead
of time, and others discovered after the fact. At a certain
point you either ship the OS, bugs and all, or throw in the
Suggest a core5.01 version that has the bugfixes for nvidea, keyboard
and for kudzu.
By all means, please feel free to create your own custom ISO images
with whatever fixes you'd like to have in them after they're released.
The Fedora project encourages users to customize the distro, and that
includes making custom bug-fixed ISO sets if desired.
Sorry to be against the release. But a reputation for quality is at
stake. I do not want to tell others, "The Core 5 cd's that are in the
books and magazines are faulty" Do not use them, do not purchase the
book or magazine.
Better to be 4 days late, have the fixes, then to ship a faulty product.
That's where you're wrong. This release is no different than FC4, FC3,
FC2, FC1, any RHL release, or any RHEL release. All OS releases have
bugs in them as I've stated above. Some more severe than others, but
that is just a fact of life. If FC5 contains an out of the box bug
which completely prevents you from using the OS, that is unfortunate,
but it will likely work for many other people. Fixing your favourite
3 critical must-have-fixed bugs, may fix the OS for you, and a handful
of other people also, but then there will be 1000 other critical bugs
that are not fixed which cause the same grief for other people as you
are potentially seeing. Should we stop-ship the OS and _just_ fix
the bugs you care about? Or should we stop-ship the OS and fix _ALL_
critical bugs that _anyone_ cares very strongly about?
Stopping shipping for one person, or even a few people is not a viable
option, and isn't fair for everyone else out there who has equal or
worse problems. Stopping shipping for everyone with a serious problem,
until all such problems are fixed, means delaying the OS for weeks,
or months - most likely years, or never actually ever releasing the
OS again ever. Plus, while those "critical bugs" are being fixed, then
all of a sudden the new upstream release of GNOME comes out, and someone
else wants that included too, since the release is delayed anyway!
Then there's a new upstream release of openoffice which fixes a lot
of bugs, might as well include that too. Then X11R7.1 comes out, then
a new upstream kernel, then KDE, then gphoto, then .... you get the
All new OS releases are going to have instabilities. Get used to that,
because it is reality, and reality isn't going to vanish any time soon,
wether the OS release date is delayed to fix an issue or two or not.
Mike A. Harris * Open Source Advocate * http://mharris.ca
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