FLP Meeting 2007-11-13 IRC

Mon Nov 19 21:56:18 UTC 2007

--- Log opened Tue Nov 13 00:00:31 2007
20:12 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- init
20:14 < couf> so who's here?
20:14 < couf> BartCouvreur (nl)
20:14 < noriko> NorikoMizumoto(ja)
20:14 < DavidsonPaulo> DavidsonPaulo (br)
20:14 < vpv> VillePekkaVainio (fi)
20:15 < rsc> RobertScheck (de)
20:15 < couf> so hi all, it's been a while
20:16 < couf> meeting topics: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2007-November/msg00024.html
20:16 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- post-F8
20:16 < couf> first up: F8 got released and it's the first release where we tried to be a bit more visible
20:17 < glezos> couf: viva la FLP
20:17 < couf> what's your viewpoint on how we did?
20:17 < couf> glezos: aye
20:18 < glezos> We did give it a good shot IMO
20:19 < glezos> especially from the viewpoint of the Freeze policies
20:19 < couf> ow yeah, that's a very good improvement
20:19 < glezos> which rose awareness about the needs of the translators
20:21 < couf> anyone else willing to comment? I'm just trying to evaluate our progress here
20:22 < couf> list of changes: move from elvis, translate.fp.o, transifex, policies, meetings, all around awareness, ...
20:24 < vpv> I think most of this stuff has gone quite well, transifex is nice, we now have somewhat of a community here, etc.
20:24 < glezos> couf: I don't think we ever saw such big changes and general stuff in terms of localization in the life of Fedora/RH Linux
20:24 < quaid> couf: from 0 news mentions to dozens(?) is pretty good progress
20:25 < couf> glezos: yeah, that's why evaluating this might be a good idea :-)
20:25 < noriko> I feel that especially we started to have closer communication and collaborative work with docs team as well.
20:25 < glezos> noriko: +1
20:25 < DavidsonPaulo> transifex and translations of websites were the greatest shots on spreading Fedora and getting contributors, IMO
20:25 < quaid> I feel like I'm seeing more complete strangers coming to the translation communities
20:25 < quaid> at least, via f-docs-list
20:26  * quaid is lurking ... sort of :)
20:26 < couf> quaid: you betya
20:26 < DavidsonPaulo> I don't know how doc team was, but I felt incredibly more comfortable working here than on Ambassador's team
20:27 < quaid> the rising visibility that is bringing new volunteers reminds me of the same thing happening in Docs since ~FC 5
20:27 < vpv> the ability to translate the website is great, I've seen some Finnish IT media giving links to the get-fedora page and it's good to know they get the Finnish version if their browser asks for it :)
20:27 < glezos> quaid: what's your reflection on the progress of the team?
20:28 < couf> yeah the idea that i18n/l10n was considerd for things like the new F9-schedule means a lot (coming to that later on)
20:29 < quaid> glezos: I could write paragraphs, but I'll summarize -- GREAT!  +1 on esp. what noriko said about communication with all Fedora groups; you've had much better visibility and input into the rest of Fedora
20:29 < quaid> and I'm also happy to see I18N doing the same things
20:30 < glezos> quaid: me too, the fact that the i18n team is having public meetings etc is great, helps collaboration between the two groups
20:31 < couf> I'm gonna say this as one who has some background in it (initial meeting at Fosdem with glezos and MrTom): we've come very far in just over 5-6 months
20:31 < couf> cudos to all of ya!
20:31 < glezos> the move from elvis went "ok".. We could wait for after F8 but having Transifex as a F8 feature was good publicity IMO and was worth the small confusion for the modules affected (not too many core ones, moves were late in the schedule) etc
20:32 < glezos> couf: indeed. I think we did much more than what we had expected to do back then
20:33 < glezos> and meetings went great, I think they are great to keep interested alive and help us "do stuff" on a regular basis
20:33 < glezos> s/interested/interst/
20:33 < glezos> grr interest
20:33 < couf> heh, yeah :-)
20:34 < couf> okay, so what can we do to improve for F9?
20:36 < glezos> Some important missing pieces are: Better docs for translation processes, have every module in our Transifex instance, continue working in awareness.
20:36 < ln-> suggestion: one should be able to select the preferred language as early as possible when booting the installation DVD.
20:36 < vpv> An idea I've had for a while: split specspo to smaller groups, if possible
20:37 < glezos> ln-: do we have a bug reported for this? If yes, we can push it a bit
20:37 < couf> vpv: yeah, that would mean something :-)
20:37 < DavidsonPaulo> "Better docs for translations processes". We need to stop using jargon when possible
20:37 < DavidsonPaulo> translate jargon is painful
20:38 < rsc> the translations also should be more free.
20:38 < glezos> rsc: in what way?
20:38 < rsc> most of the German translations are nearly translated word by word and with horrible typos, grammar etc.
20:38 < rsc> I don't know, whether this applies to other languages, too.
20:38 < rsc> Quality, not quantity.
20:39 < vpv> - Remind developers to add translator-credits to all the applications
20:39 < couf> yeah, that's an interesting thing: QA for translations
20:39 < ln-> glezos: not sure, i've seen some discussion about it, but it may have been the mailing list.
20:39 < glezos> rsc: That's an important issue that should be discussed in each translation team -- Is there a way we can do it centrally as a project?
20:40 < glezos> vpv: or jump in and do it ourselves.. :)
20:40 < couf> glezos: we could give some general hints
20:40 < rsc> glezos: well...just remind in general?
20:40 < rsc> of course each translator (team) is at the end for its own, no question
20:41 < glezos> vpv: how about creating a table in a wiki page and mark with green/red each module having/not having a box?
20:41 < ln-> what's the policy nowadays, is anyone given access to modify the translations (of his language)?
20:41 < couf> okay, someone wanting to put these ideas on a wiki-page so we can tick them off when done, sort of like the fedora-features?
20:41 < vpv> glezos: good idea
20:41 < couf> ln-: yep that's the basic idea
20:42 < glezos> rsc: good idea, again a page on the wiki with Translation Hints would make sense.
20:43 < glezos> couf: something like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Tasks?
20:43 < glezos> (which is awfully outdated, which is bad)
20:44 < ln-> so a new translator can join and commit translations, maybe without the coordinator of the language even noticing it?
20:44 < couf> I think we can basicly conculde with: finalizing/cleaning up from F8 progress + keeping awareness up
20:44 < couf> ln-: yeah, you see the need of some QA?
20:44 < glezos> Oh, one major thing we should do ASAP is send an email to all elvis translators to go on and create a FAS account
20:44 < glezos> (and explain things a bit)
20:44 < couf> glezos: ah right
20:45 < couf> okay, shall we move on?
20:45 < glezos> ln-: well, the idea was that each maintainer would be requested to join the l10n-commits group
20:45 < ln-> couf: i see a potential risk in that, because sometimes people have more enthusiasm than skills.
20:47 < couf> that's the issue we're facing right now, we should investigate more into it during this release cycle, IMO
20:47 < glezos> ln-: Creating a draft translation hints page might be a first step?
20:48 < glezos> and then we could move it in the TQSG itself
20:49 < noriko> sounds organized.
20:49 < couf> this is something for the list I'd say
20:49 < glezos> noriko: we rock.
20:49 < noriko> :)
20:49 < couf> anything else to be added?
20:50 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- translate.fp.o
20:50 < couf> moving on, any updates on translate.fp.o
20:50 < ln-> let's think this way: probably write access to the actual source code is not given right away to someone who chooses to join.
20:51 < ln-> that is because programming requires some skills, and i'd assume one has to prove one's skills somehow before getting write access.
20:51 < glezos> ln-: I think following the Docs approach, which is full access but close monitoring, is wise
20:51 < ln-> now, we shouldn't forget that also translation requires skills, if the quality is supposed to be of any standard.
20:53 < couf> I'm actually still in the unclear here: is transifex live right now?
20:53 < glezos> ln-: How about making all language leaders "sponsors" in the FAS, and each leader should give access for members of their team/
20:54 < glezos> couf: last time I checked it was live
20:54 < ln-> glezos: sounds good...
20:54 < couf> b/c there's no link from translate.fp.o
20:55 < glezos> couf: well, let's say it was beta until now. :)
20:55 < couf> ln-, glezos: take this up to the list for further discussion
20:55 < glezos> I'll try to make it live at translate.fpo/submit/ in the following days.
20:55 < couf> glezos: ah well, I'd consider that not live then :-)
20:55 < couf> cool
20:55 < ln-> e.g. what the finnish team for Ubuntu has done (after anarchy), is that nowadays new translators need to write a short introduction of themselves and tell what have they translated earlier, before they are given access.
20:56 < glezos> ln-: good idea for already established teams, although it adds another step in the registration process. I did mention it at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join FWIW.
20:56 < ln-> (i'm of course not involved with Ubuntu)
20:56 < glezos> Quote from the page; Post a short self introduction to the fedora-trans-list mailing list and to the list of your local team.
20:57 < glezos> Let's discuss it on the list and hear what other language maintainers have to say.
20:57 < ln-> sure
20:58 < glezos> translate.fpo needs updating, and maybe some more helping hands on the XML files :)
20:59 < glezos> Piotr Drag has done some great maintenance of the files.
20:59 < couf> true that
20:59 < glezos> noriko: maybe someone from RH L10n could help a bit in keeping the conf files up2date with the relases/brancehs etc.. What do you think?
21:00 < couf> ow good idea
21:00 < glezos> IIRC ankit showed some interest, I can ask him
21:00 < vpv> btw, the Finnish stats are incorrect, is this a known issue: http://translate.fedoraproject.org/languages/fi/fedora-8
21:01 < couf> vpv: not only fi, nl is affected too
21:01 < noriko> glezos: yp, good idea.
21:01 < couf> wiping the scrathdir seems to solve it
21:01 < glezos> couf: will look into it. Let's have all these in the meeting summary to tick them in the next days.
21:02 < couf> glezos: sure
21:02 < couf> glezos: if you need any help with both, just yell
21:02 < couf> both as in: DL and transifex
21:04 < glezos> couf: We need some in DL. Transifex is OK I think.
21:04 < couf> all right
21:04 < couf> next topic
21:04 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- F9 - schedule
21:05 < glezos> link: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule
21:05 < couf> it's a bit early but we've got a prelimary schedule
21:05 < glezos> Almost 1 month of frozen strings, and then 1 month until release.
21:06 < couf> more info on: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-details.html
21:06 < glezos> Sounds great from our point of view IMO, since ni the last month we can work on Docs/Website translations ;-)
21:07 < couf> well the idea is to get the website done much earlier, so we have more time, which is nice
21:07 < poelcat> i'd love to add a separate section for translation and docs
21:07 < poelcat> then we can create custom views of the schedule
21:07 < couf> poelcat: fyi, was following rel-eng meeting, wanted to have some input from here
21:07 < poelcat> and build dependencies between groups very easily
21:07 < couf> that would be really intersting
21:07 < glezos> poelcat: BTW, there are different string/translatino freezes for software (release schedule) and docs (docs schedule)
21:08 < poelcat> glezos: yeah, i need to talk to the docs people too :)
21:08 < glezos> poelcat: sounds awesoem
21:08 < poelcat> if someone wants to send me a list of tasks w/ durations and milestones I pop them in
21:09 < couf> heh, that's partly the same people, lol
21:09 < poelcat> s/I/I'll
21:09  * glezos uses a stranger's laptop for the meeting, please excuse the typos. ;)
21:09 < couf> poelcat: cool, will do
21:10 < poelcat> even if it is a wild stab in the dark... we can always smooth in out later
21:10 < couf> so is everyone okay with one month string freezing == translating lots in 1 month
21:12 < glezos> couf: The only worry is whether developers might find the string freeze too early. I think this was shown a bit in the previous release. We could ask from now on -devel-list.
21:13 < couf> glezos: that's actually a good point, we could request a string freeze two week before test3 or whatever it'll be called
21:13 < couf> and just do a lot more ahead of that
21:14 < couf> two weeks to iron out the last things seems enough
21:14 < couf> and/or move translation freeze to rc?
21:14  * couf just tossing in some ideas
21:16 < noriko> if we can have two phase for translation would be nice. such as one month freeze then 2-day freeze for last minutes change from developers
21:16 < couf> and zero-day update translations?
21:17 < noriko> do we have zero-day officially?
21:17 < couf> I'm actually wondering of creating a specific zero-day update for translations only
21:18 < couf> although that would bring up the whole one-package-per-language discussion again
21:18 < noriko> sounds cool, couf then forget about 2-day.
21:19 < couf> well let's take this to the list too
21:19 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- training
21:20 < couf> I've been thinking of giving some training seesions for translations
21:20 < couf> using transifex, best practices, maybe cvs/svn/git/hg, maintainer tasks
21:21 < couf> what ya think?
21:21 < couf> just to get the new stuff known to all
21:22 < couf> I'll send to the list and see if there's some interest in stuff like this
21:23 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- Open floor
21:23 < couf> so anyone want to discuss anything?
21:24 < noriko> let me update TQSG a bit.
21:24 < noriko> can I?
21:25 < couf> sure :-)
21:25 < noriko> :)
21:25 < noriko> as all already know, tqsg splitted into four chapters with four files.
21:25 < noriko> three files can be said ready to publish
21:26 < noriko> last file which is Translating_Software.xml, because my documenting skill is bad it requires a bit more work.
21:27 < noriko> I am going to work on this asap, then I need someone to proofread so that tqsg can finally be published.
21:27 < couf> noriko: take your time and let us know we you're done
21:27 < noriko> couf: ok.
21:28 < couf> anything else?
21:28 < couf> if not let's move to a close
21:29  * couf starts countdown
21:29 < couf> 10
21:29 < couf> 5
21:29 < couf> 4
21:29 < couf> 3
21:29 < couf> 2
21:29 < couf> 1
21:29 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Translation Meeting -- Meeting closed
21:29 < couf> thanks all
21:30 < noriko> thanks!
21:30 < couf> next meeting: probably in two weeks
21:30 < couf> I might not be around then, but you can go ahead :-)

-- 
Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be>
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D  3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93
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