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FLScO Meeting 2008-07-30 Summary


 * Christos Bacharakis
 * Ville Pekka Vainio
 * Dimitris Glezos
 * Runa Bhattacharjee
 * Noriko Mizumoto


* https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/105, no one provided any, and
the feature freeze is again on the same date as the string freeze, which
means packagers have only 24h to re-package translations once again.

* Ideally we should have the string freeze 5 days before the feature freeze.

* FUDCon Brno in September: comments, do we want to see something
happening there. A few L10n people will be there (cmpahar)

* Dimitris will give a Transifex session at FUDCon Brno.

* Transifex 0.3 was released.. We're stabilizing the development tree
and there are 4 people working on it.

* We don't seem to have Rawhide statistics on DL yet due to lack of
resource for maintenance. We like to have someone from RH being
responsible for these issues.

 7月 30 05:11:33 <glezos>	So, let's get this partae started
 7月 30 05:11:35 <glezos>	<meeting>
 7月 30 05:11:36 <glezos>	rollcall
 7月 30 05:11:54 <cmpahar>	ChristosBacharakis
 7月 30 05:11:55 <glezos>	Who's around this {late in the evening|early in the morning}?
 7月 30 05:12:32 <vpv>	VillePekkaVainio
 7月 30 05:12:41 <glezos>	DimitrisGlezos
 7月 30 05:12:59 <noriko>	NorikoMizumoto 
 7月 30 05:13:03 <runa_b>	RunaBhattacharjee
 7月 30 05:13:10 <noriko>	do we go under this chanel?
 7月 30 05:13:58 <glezos>	noriko: Let's, since we aren't many people -- this way other lurkers will have the chance to participate.
 7月 30 05:14:15 <noriko>	glezos: good idea :-)
 7月 30 05:14:34 ---	glezos がトピックを変更しました: Fedora Localization Group meeting -- Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
 7月 30 05:15:12 <glezos>	Last meeting was on 17/6: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-June/msg00035.html
 7月 30 05:15:40 <glezos>	(no minutes)
 7月 30 05:16:46 <glezos>	One thing we were supposed to do was to give feedback for F10's schedule
 7月 30 05:16:49 <glezos>	http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-10/f-10-all-tasks.html
 7月 30 05:17:14 <glezos>	From what I see on https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/105, noone provided any and the feature freeze is again on the same date as the string freeze
 7月 30 05:17:27 <glezos>	which means packagers have only 24h to re-package translations (once again)
 7月 30 05:17:51 <glezos>	This is probably the main reason why some translations don't make it into the release.
 7月 30 05:20:23 <runa_b>	funny how we missed it... was there any mail asking for comments ?
 7月 30 05:20:30 <glezos>	(feel free to drop comments at any time, btw)
 7月 30 05:20:46 -->	airtonarantes (n=airton 189 71 141 18) has joined #fedora-l10n
 7月 30 05:20:56 <vpv>	and if developers are "allowed" to change strings until the string freeze and then the translations are supposed to be packaged really soon, translations won't probably be in sync with the messages either
 7月 30 05:21:11 <glezos>	runa_b: Jesse mentioned we should drop comments on the ticket during the meeting.
 7月 30 05:21:36 <runa_b>	glezos: hmmm ok
 7月 30 05:21:48 <glezos>	vpv: yeah, ideally we should have the string freeze 5 days before the feature freeze.
 7月 30 05:23:11 <glezos>	Let's get an agenda for the meeting going.
 7月 30 05:23:21 <glezos>	 - I can give some update on the progress of our tools
 7月 30 05:23:56 <glezos>	 - FUDCon Brno in September: comments, do we want to see something happening there, etc.
 7月 30 05:24:16 <cmpahar>	i will be at FUDCon :)
 7月 30 05:24:34 <cmpahar>	I can do something..
 7月 30 05:24:42 <cmpahar>	i dont know, whatever you want! :)
 7月 30 05:25:09 -->	hugabal (n=hyuugaba i218-47-75-208 s05 a022 ap plala or jp) has joined #fedora-l10n
 7月 30 05:26:01 <cmpahar>	anyone alive?!
 7月 30 05:26:36 <glezos>	cmpahar: a few L10n people will be there
 7月 30 05:26:56 <glezos>	so the Q is whether there is something we could do together.
 7月 30 05:27:05 <glezos>	marek: If you have any ideas, let us know.
 7月 30 05:27:37 <cmpahar>	what is Q?
 7月 30 05:27:42 <glezos>	(question)
 7月 30 05:27:59 <glezos>	Anything else we'd like to see discussed today?
 7月 30 05:28:04 <runa_b>	glezos: marek: do you think, you guys could do a translation QA fest or something?
 7月 30 05:28:27 <runa_b>	something related to translation review..
 7月 30 05:29:07 -->	giallu (n=giallu fedora/giallu) has joined #fedora-l10n
 7月 30 05:29:34 <glezos>	runa_b: I thought at a point whether a L10n QA might be useful, but I wonder whether there'll be enough developers with i18n-ized tools attending.
 7月 30 05:30:07 <runa_b>	hmm
 7月 30 05:30:10 <marek>	hm, I'm not sure if I'll find the time personally, as I'll be organizing a lot of stuff
 7月 30 05:30:46 <marek>	hi all btw, I've just got finally home :)
 7月 30 05:30:57 <glezos>	I'm having a Transifex session, so I guess L10n Qs will be asked there anyway.
 7月 30 05:32:23 <marek>	yup
 7月 30 05:32:30 <noriko>	glezos: anything particular if you like to have it with at QA that can be prepared?
 7月 30 05:32:35 <marek>	and I'm sure you'll get poped-up for random question during the day
 7月 30 05:32:47 <cmpahar>	my opinion is to decide what we want to do?! We want QA, we want to show our progress etc. What?!
 7月 30 05:33:24 <cmpahar>	we want to attract people?!
 7月 30 05:33:43 <noriko>	cmpahar: 'our progress' sounds nice
 7月 30 05:33:53 <glezos>	Hm.
 7月 30 05:34:34 <glezos>	I could (also) give one presentation on the Fedora L10n Project per se, showing the progress we've done. I already have some figures and numbers.
 7月 30 05:34:56 <marek>	glezos: that would be great
 7月 30 05:35:56 <glezos>	OK. I'll put it on the page, and see how the barcamp goes -- maybe people will be interested in both sessions, maybe not.
 7月 30 05:36:10 <marek>	I think it will mostly interest rpm/developers
 7月 30 05:38:06 <noriko>	I like to shoot the question 'what is the status of transifex?' 
 7月 30 05:38:14 <glezos>	noriko: good Q
 7月 30 05:38:32 <glezos>	I released Transifex 0.3 the other days
 7月 30 05:38:42 <glezos>	http://groups.google.com/group/transifex-devel/browse_thread/thread/bbf446dd28649892
 7月 30 05:39:06 <glezos>	Development is *really* active these days
 7月 30 05:39:16 <glezos>	You can check out http://transifex.org/timeline that shows a bunch of development changes
 7月 30 05:39:27 <glezos>	And also take a look at our Roadmap: http://transifex.org/roadmap
 7月 30 05:39:48 <glezos>	So the current status is that we're stabilizing the development tree and there are 4 people working on it.
 7月 30 05:40:33 <glezos>	GNOME is considering adopting it, we're planning on integrating Damned Lies in Tx (upstream agrees on this move) and Stephane, the maintainer of Vertimus is already working in moving it into Tx.
 7月 30 05:41:41 <vpv>	great news :) I think I actually went to the transifex.org site for the first time a couple of days ago, that's really nice as well
 7月 30 05:42:21 <noriko>	phew! fantastic. congratulation the release of 0.3, glezos 
 7月 30 05:42:24 <glezos>	vpv: We've put some effort in making it a solid upstream open source project.
 7月 30 05:43:11 <glezos>	I'm not sure when we'll be able to update translate.fpo to version 0.3, but the benefits won't be too many (mostly under-the-hood changes)
 7月 30 05:43:25 <glezos>	We might want to wait for v0.4 which will hopefully roll out in a month.
 7月 30 05:43:32 <glezos>	Now, one of the greatest things I'm working on is a "centralized" instance of Tx, independent of any project, probably at transifex.net
 7月 30 05:43:56 <glezos>	It will allow new user registrations, any project hosted anywhere will be able to hook up with it, etc.
 7月 30 05:44:01 <runa_b>	glezos: what would the centralized instance do?
 7月 30 05:44:21 <runa_b>	ahh ok
 7月 30 05:44:38 <runa_b>	do you mean to do something like an openID?
 7月 30 05:44:45 <glezos>	runa_b: openID as well.
 7月 30 05:44:57 <runa_b>	nice :)
 7月 30 05:45:06 <glezos>	The vision is to have these Tx instances "talk" to each other, so we can have a global L10n community in a way.
 7月 30 05:45:29 <glezos>	Projects like Fedora and GNOME can have their own community, and each Tx instance can "submit" stuff to other instances and wait for approval by the local communities.
 7月 30 05:45:52 <glezos>	FWIW, projects like OpenSUSE, Maemo and Mono have shown interest in it as well.
 7月 30 05:46:11 <glezos>	Anyone wanting to follow up on News, can monitor http://transifex.org/wiki/News or http://pipes.yahoo.com/transifex/updates.
 7月 30 05:46:12 <glezos>	eof.
 7月 30 05:47:44 <glezos>	Since we're on the tools subject: Our instance of DL (statistics) is a bit outdated right now.. Piotr has been updating the XML conf files, but my testing sandbox is broken and haven't had time to debug it for a while.
 7月 30 05:50:42 <vpv>	glezos: btw, now that Fedora is using Mediawiki, have you heard about the Mediawiki PO translation extension etc. project, which is going on as a part of the Finnish Summer (of) Code of this year?
 7月 30 05:51:10 <glezos>	vpv: yeah, I talked about it a bit with the MW guys
 7月 30 05:51:33 <glezos>	I didn't have the chance to take a good look at it yet though
 7月 30 05:51:52 <glezos>	But it seems promising. The place to ask is probably #mediawiki-i18n
 7月 30 05:53:14 <glezos>	Okey, anything else we want to discuss?
 7月 30 05:53:55 <noriko>	brain storm = yes one thing
 7月 30 05:53:57 <vpv>	glezos: right. I just wanted to make sure that you guys know about each other and so on, maybe the mediawiki stuff could be useful to us at some point...
 7月 30 05:54:23 <ankit>	glezos: noriko runa_b : sorry got late, was away from my machine!
 7月 30 05:54:40 <runa_b>	ankit: no worries.. the meeting is on over here
 7月 30 05:54:44 <glezos>	vpv: They definitely could be useful, yeah..
 7月 30 05:54:47 <noriko>	hi ankit 
 7月 30 05:54:52 <ankit>	hi noriko
 7月 30 05:54:56 <glezos>	ankit: welcome
 7月 30 05:55:01 <ankit>	glezos: :)
 7月 30 05:55:28 <glezos>	ankit: feel free to scroll up and comment on anything you'd like.
 7月 30 05:55:30 <noriko>	somewhat and somehow is any way that we can hear more comment on L10n from other translators?
 7月 30 05:55:48 <cmpahar>	welcome ankit
 7月 30 05:57:07 <glezos>	noriko: Maybe asking on the mailing list could get more feedback.
 7月 30 05:57:24 <ankit>	guys, F10 schedule is up (with translations deadline),,,  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings#agenda
 7月 30 05:57:27 <ankit>	oops
 7月 30 05:57:32 <ankit>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule
 7月 30 05:57:35 <glezos>	And/or create a wiki page like L10N/Feedback linked in from /L10N..
 7月 30 05:57:46 <noriko>	glezos: I mean more mandatory way :P  
 7月 30 05:58:17 <glezos>	ankit: Yes, the thing is that String & feature freezes are on the same date.
 7月 30 05:59:16 <noriko>	to see how many languages are active and how happy they are, so we can more ppl to be more active.
 7月 30 05:59:27 <glezos>	noriko: Maybe a poll could help.
 7月 30 05:59:47 <vpv>	Oh, we don't seem to have Rawhide statistics on DL yet, what's the situation there?
 7月 30 06:00:22 <glezos>	noriko: I'd say either a poll on a website offering such functionality and send an email to all per-language mailing lists.
 7月 30 06:00:49 <noriko>	glezos: k. I will think about that and find some clear vision on it.
 7月 30 06:01:43 <glezos>	noriko: a bunch of Qs sent on the list asking for replies might get some constructive feedback as well.
 7月 30 06:03:23 <noriko>	vpv: you right...
 7月 30 06:03:58 <glezos>	vpv: our DL instance is screwed up.
 7月 30 06:04:36 <glezos>	I think I'm the only person having a test instance that can push the changes live..
 7月 30 06:05:50 <glezos>	We did try to recruit a few people from the community, but the whole landscape of our L10n tools is pretty complicated...
 7月 30 06:06:30 <glezos>	I've mentioned in a few occasions to RH folks that having a person payed to administrate our L10n infrastructure will greatly help both the community as well as our internal translators
 7月 30 06:07:24 <glezos>	AFAIK we don't have someone from RH being responsible for these issues yet.
 7月 30 06:08:00 <glezos>	Anyway -- I'll try to find some time in my vacations to work on them.
 7月 30 06:10:18 <ankit>	glezos: i thought asgeirf was helping you with some tx issues...
 7月 30 06:11:52 <glezos>	ankit: asgeirf is working on the development of Tx, yeah
 7月 30 06:12:29 <glezos>	but our L10n infrastructure (servers, Damned Lies configuration, RPMs) definitely need some more love.
 7月 30 06:13:09 <ankit>	ah i see
 7月 30 06:13:13 <glezos>	At least that's what Bugzilla says.. :/
 7月 30 06:13:32 <glezos>	anyway. Looking at the bright side of life.
 7月 30 06:13:33 <glezos>	:)
 7月 30 06:13:51 <glezos>	Anything else we need/forgot to discuss before wrapping up?
 7月 30 06:14:21 <noriko>	it is good sending singnal for help, it will be picked up soon.
 7月 30 06:15:22 <ankit>	i had a doubt about the date decided for "translation deadline" for Fedora 10...
 7月 30 06:15:51 <ankit>	is it decided by FLESCo or the release-engineering?
 7月 30 06:15:54 <ankit>	any idea ? anyone?
 7月 30 06:16:48 <noriko>	good question, I like to know too. I could not pick up any mail in f-t-l asking that to us.
 7月 30 06:17:05 <glezos>	noriko: done: http://dimitris.glezos.com/weblog/2008/07/29/l10n-admins-wanted/
 7月 30 06:17:29 <glezos>	ankit: RelEng decides the release dates, I think.
 7月 30 06:17:44 <glezos>	ankit: AFAIK they took the same approach we had in the previous release.
 7月 30 06:18:25 <runa_b>	glezos: was the FLSCo consulted.. since this time we do have a SC?
 7月 30 06:19:17 -->	hanthana (n=hanthana 216 18 1 210) has joined #fedora-l10n
 7月 30 06:19:19 <glezos>	runa_b: I'm pretty sure a few folks looked at the proposed schedule before final decision, but I don't know about the "official" things (approval stamps etc)
 7月 30 06:19:47 <runa_b>	glezos: oh ok
 7月 30 06:20:19 <glezos>	ankit: Speaking on releases -- have you guys discussed the idea we had, to have Fedora relnotes translated in languages we have internal translators for?
 7月 30 06:20:34 <ankit>	glezos: actually, there wasn't any date specified for "Translation freeze" before a week ago, I guess... after i caught it, i sent an e-mail to release-engineering people (John Poelstra and jesse keating) to know about the deadline for translation
 7月 30 06:20:55 <glezos>	ankit: ok
 7月 30 06:20:57 <ankit>	so, i was expecting them to consult FLSCo, but they did it themselves it seems...
 7月 30 06:21:18 <cmpahar>	guys sorry, i have to go.. happy to see you!!
 7月 30 06:21:20 <cmpahar>	bb
 7月 30 06:21:28 <ankit>	anyways, but i truely feel that we/l10n/FLSCo should be consulted to decide dates related to translation freeze
 7月 30 06:21:31 <runa_b>	bye cmpahar
 7月 30 06:21:35 <ankit>	cmpahar: no worries, you can read the logs :)
 7月 30 06:21:42 <cmpahar>	i wil :)
 7月 30 06:22:24 <glezos>	ankit: I think we'll need to continue working in raising awareness and being responsible for certain things before things like this happen.
 7月 30 06:22:26 <ankit>	so, if we can come up with some plan, we could approach release-engineering officially to decide the date
 7月 30 06:22:52 <ankit>	glezos: agree...
 7月 30 06:23:03 <glezos>	For what it's worth, I participate on the Release meetings, so at least we have someone representing L10n in the official process.
 7月 30 06:23:54 <glezos>	ankit: you could comment on the bug report that we'd like the string freeze date to happen 5 days earlier, and send an email to releng (CCing John Poelstra) asking them to move the date..
 7月 30 06:24:24 <--	cmpahar has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
 7月 30 06:24:34 <ankit>	glezos: oh, we do have bug report for this? i didn't know!
 7月 30 06:25:21 <glezos>	ankit: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/105
 7月 30 06:25:42 <ankit>	thx glezos
 7月 30 06:25:59 <glezos>	right.
 7月 30 06:26:14 <glezos>	I think it's getting pretty late in India, let's take any other topics on the list or after the meeting
 7月 30 06:26:20 <glezos>	Closing in 30
 7月 30 06:26:38 <ankit>	btw, just to update you guys, i got one more thing added into the F10 schedule, that's "Allow Fedora 10 Pre-branch"...
 7月 30 06:26:53 <ankit>	which resolves "Branching" issue for us I guess...
 7月 30 06:27:13 <ankit>	But, I am not sure, whether all Developers will follow these dates to make the branches for their packages
 7月 30 06:27:42 <glezos>	ankit: they won't.
 7月 30 06:27:53 <ankit>	so, what I had in my mine while I attended Boston FUDCon is, to inform the developers individually through e-mails about this date and the importans of Branching
 7月 30 06:27:56 <glezos>	(just making sure it's pretty clear.:)
 7月 30 06:28:05 <ankit>	glezos: i know, but, some of them may
 7月 30 06:28:39 <glezos>	ankit: Ideally we could track all these through Transifex.. Each developer adding his own branch automatically.
 7月 30 06:28:44 <glezos>	um.. *directly.
 7月 30 06:29:38 <ankit>	ah, that's a great idea to find out which package is branched and which one is not
 7月 30 06:30:09 <glezos>	ankit: These are the features I'd like to work in the next months.
 7月 30 06:30:10 <glezos>	OK
 7月 30 06:30:13 <glezos>	Let's wrap up here
 7月 30 06:30:21 <glezos>	and continue the discussion later.
 7月 30 06:30:23 <glezos>	</meeting>

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