Wiki Miration Meeting Log - 2008-04-25

[Ricky Zhou]

17:04 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: WikiMigration Meeting -- init (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration)
17:04 < mmcgrath> Who's here?
17:04  * jds2001 here
17:04  * ricky 
17:04  * ianweller 
17:04  * couf 
17:04  * ianweller will be gone in 5-10 minutes though and back 15 minutes after that.
17:04 < mmcgrath> ianweller: solid
17:04 < mmcgrath> spevack: ping
17:04 < mmcgrath> poelcat: ping
17:04 < ricky> poelcat, jwb: ping
17:04 < mmcgrath> fabian_a: ping
17:05 < ricky> quaid too, I guess
17:05 < jwb> hi ricky
17:05 < mmcgrath> yeah, jwb!
17:05 < mmcgrath> quaid: ping
17:05 < jwb> oh, meeting
17:05 < jwb> yeah i'm here
17:05 < ivazquez> Pong.
17:05 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: ping!
17:05 < mmcgrath> heh
17:05 -!- fab_away [n=bellet at bellet.info] has quit No route to host
17:05 < ricky> :(
17:05 < mmcgrath> Ok, so lets get started.
17:05 < fabian_a> mmcgrath: pong
17:05 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Two week round up
17:05 < ricky> Oh, fabian_a != fab_away :)
17:06 < mmcgrath> So not a whole lot of visible progress has gone on over the last two weeks.  I know ianweller has been working on getting images uploaded.
17:06  * poelcat here
17:06  * ianweller notes that he should start doing that
17:06 < mmcgrath> I was gone last week in training.
17:06 < ianweller> i'm working on a new main page
17:06 < mmcgrath> This week though I got smooge's rpm all setup in our infrastructure repo and it is now being used for the smolts.org/wiki/
17:06 < mmcgrath> So deployment of the fedoraproject.org/wiki/ should be pretty trivial.
17:06 < ianweller> mmcgrath: did you get the api.php thing figured out?
17:07 < mmcgrath> the only hangup was the api.php.
17:07 < mmcgrath> ianweller: I didn't yet, been a straing day.
17:07 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle at 2a01:e35:2ef8:fc70:20c:6eff:fed6:27c8] has quit No route to host
17:07 < ricky> ianweller: How's the OpenID plugin packaging been going?
17:07 < mmcgrath> but we'll get that figured out.
17:07  * ianweller looks
17:07  * ricky notes that basic OpenID support (through samadhi) is ready for the next FAS releas.
17:07 < ricky> **release
17:07 < ianweller> i think athimm is still monopolizing that
17:07 < mmcgrath> :(
17:07 < ianweller> i packaged HNP/StubManager fyi
17:08 < mmcgrath> ianweller: excellent!
17:08 < ianweller> i need to steal that from him though, i guess
17:08  * mmcgrath is currently deploying those via puppet... yuck.
17:08 -!- stickster_afk [n=npfrield at fedora/stickster] has quit Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
17:08 < ianweller> someone lemee know when mediawiki is in EPEL so i can put HNP/StubManager in EPEL too
17:08 < ianweller> or is it already, i haven't looked
17:08 < mmcgrath> ianweller: will do, I'll ping smooge about that soon.
17:08 < mmcgrath> .any smooge
17:08 < zodbot> mmcgrath: smooge was last seen in #fedora-meeting 16 minutes and 37 seconds ago: *** smooge has quit IRC ("-ENOCAFFEINE")
17:08 < mmcgrath> once he gets better.
17:09 < ianweller> kthx
17:09 < mmcgrath> So thats whats going on.  We're a little behind schedule, but with the release slip thats not a bad thing.
17:09 < mmcgrath> not as bad as it could be.
17:09 < ianweller> i've gotta head out in 2 minutes
17:09 < mmcgrath> ianweller: k.
17:09 < mmcgrath> So thats the only progress from this week, next I'll move on to the issues section again.
17:09  * jwb is slightly confused
17:10 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Migration issues
17:10 < mmcgrath> jwb: sure thing, whats up?
17:10 < jwb> mmcgrath, keep going.  i just had no idea what the above conversation was about :)
17:10 < mmcgrath> jwb: ahh, no worries, we'll catch you up.
17:10 < jwb> ok
17:10 < mmcgrath> the above conversation was sort of multipart.
17:10 < mmcgrath> 1) the new wiki uses OpenID for authentication.
17:10 < mmcgrath> 2) mediawiki isn't in EPEL yet so we stuck it in our http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/ repo
17:11 < mmcgrath> 3) FAS2's next release will be OpenID ready.
17:11 < mmcgrath> and 4) some plugins we're using got packaged by ianweller (woot)
17:11 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle at bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
17:11 < jwb> ok
17:11 < ianweller> that'llj ust be username entry, not some crazy long url, right?
17:11 < mmcgrath> jwb: so thats basically what that was all about.
17:11 < jwb> all sounds cool
17:11 < ianweller> for openid
17:11 < ricky> Is the publictest1 test mediawiki setup close to what we're going to use?
17:11 < mmcgrath> ianweller: not sure, I've not seen how its implemented in both FAS2 or mediawiki yet :)
17:11 < ricky> (being fc6 and everything)
17:11 < mmcgrath> ricky: actually no, its 2 minor versions behind.
17:12 < mmcgrath> I'm going to get that upgraded soon.
17:12 < ianweller> mmcgrath: openid revolves around URLs if i remember correctly so we would have to patch the plugin if we wanted just username entry.
17:12 < ricky> Ah, OK - I'd like to have a test instance to play around with openid integration.
17:12 < ianweller> we need to put talking to athimm about the mediawiki-openid stuff on the agenda
17:12 < mmcgrath> ianweller: yeah we'll have to get those bits together and let ricky tinker.
17:12 < mmcgrath> <nod>
17:12 < ianweller> with that, i've gotta head out, should be back in 10-15
17:12 < mmcgrath> ianweller: solid, thanks for making it this far!
17:12 < ricky> I'd probably vote for keeping the URL (to make it clear that it's an OpenID that can be used anywhere)
17:13 < ricky> But that's probably something to think about later :)
17:13 < mmcgrath> ricky: I'd almost agree, though I'd like to see it in action.
17:13 < mmcgrath> yeah.
17:13 < mmcgrath> we can get to that when we start implementing.
17:13 < jds2001> is there an easy way to restrict it to just the FAS provider?
17:13 < mmcgrath> Ok, so last time we talked about the whole wikiname vs username vs /wiki/MikeMcGrath vs /wiki/User:mmcgrath.
17:14 < mmcgrath> jds2001: yeah, we have to add providers one by one.  for the initial rollout openid will basically just be a single sign on for us.
17:14 < ricky> jds2001: Yup.
17:14 < mmcgrath> jwb: one big difference between mediawiki and moin will be that WikiName is going away.
17:14 < mmcgrath> last time we decided to email people and make this a more manual process because there's no good way of automating it.
17:15 < mmcgrath> jwb: so let your guys know that after the new wiki comes up, they'll be logging in with just their fas username (like mmcgrath) and that they'll have to move their personal page from /wiki/WikiName to /wiki/User:username
17:15 < jwb> mmcgrath, will do
17:15 < mmcgrath> ok, next item on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration is OpenID and we just talked about that.
17:16 < mmcgrath> Next item is the migration script.
17:16 < mmcgrath> so right now whats at https://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMain is what we got with the script.
17:16 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: have you made any changes to it recently?
17:16 < ivazquez> I have not.
17:16 < mmcgrath> k
17:17 < mmcgrath> so I'm going to keep working on that, possibly with ivazquez if he's interested ;-)
17:17 < mmcgrath> I don't think there's a whole lot more to do.  but there is some.
17:17 < mmcgrath> next item was docbook for the docs team.
17:18 < jwb> question:
17:18 < jwb> when is the rollout targeted for agian?
17:18 < mmcgrath> jwb: we don't have a defined date yet, it deps on the release.  It was going to be in early May but now its likely going to be in late May.
17:18 < jwb> release of what?
17:18 < mmcgrath> F9.
17:18 < jwb> why?
17:19 < mmcgrath> we didn't want to go changing it before since its in the critical path (people use it for a ton of workflow)
17:19 < jwb> ok, makes sense
17:19 < mmcgrath> Plus things are real calm right after the release usually so it seemed a good time.
17:19 < mmcgrath> Oh, so the docbook stuff.  I've been working with a perl script and running it by the docs guys.  So far I think they've been liking it.
17:20 < mmcgrath> Unlike their last script which is built in to moin, this script is external.
17:20 < mmcgrath> Which allows us to make changes to it alone without having to worry about integrating it into the wiki or upstream.
17:20 < mmcgrath> the next problem area is attachments.
17:21 < mmcgrath> I took a look at opensuse's wiki today and even talked with one of their admins and it looks like they'll be doing it in the same way we are.
17:21 < mmcgrath> the problem is that migrating the attachments is going to be basically impossible to do and have it still be useful afterwards I think.
17:21 < mmcgrath> That leaves a lot of attachments that need to be re-uploaded.  And I'll be happy to work with teams individually if they can give me a list of attachments they want to go up.
17:22 < mmcgrath> but the bottom line is the way mediawiki and moin do attachments is very very different.
17:22 < mmcgrath> I think ianweller had some interesting comments on this area, I'll wait till he gets back to talk about that.
17:22 < mmcgrath> jwb: does FESCo use attachments for anything?
17:22 -!- mdomsch [n=Matt_Dom at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has quit "Leaving"
17:23 < jwb> mmcgrath, i don't recall us using attachments, but we do inheritance of sections from other pages
17:23 < mmcgrath> <nod>
17:24 < mmcgrath> k, that stuff may require some cleanup after the migration.  If you get a moment browse through your pages under https://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ and see if anything looks horribly wrong
17:24 -!- rahul_b [n=rbhalera at 123.201.200.90] has quit Remote closed the connection
17:24 < jwb> will do
17:24 < mmcgrath> Next item is the acl system.  I've still got some work to do on that area.  Its up, it works (sort of) I've been waiting to do much else on that until OpenID is working so I can make sure the two work together.
17:25 < mmcgrath> So thats the jist of it.
17:25 < mmcgrath> What do you guys have questions about for me?  Have you all had a chance to go over your section of the wiki?
17:25 < mmcgrath> how's it look?
17:25  * jds2001 will do that this weekend
17:25 < ivazquez> Some of my stuff doesn't look quite right.
17:26 < jwb> heh... i don't see anything at all on the FESCo page
17:26 < mmcgrath> jwb: its empty?
17:26 < mmcgrath> so for stuff that you can identify thats wrong (and wrong in multiple places) add https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/315
17:26 < jwb> hang on, i want to make sure i have the right page
17:27 < mmcgrath> jwb: I think you want - https://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee
17:27 < ivazquez> I think 315 is the wrong one.
17:27 < mmcgrath> I still don't have redirects working in the migration script
17:27 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: sorry
17:27 < mmcgrath> .ticket 31
17:27 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #31 (New Wiki) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/31
17:27 < mmcgrath> that one.
17:28 -!- jgraham_ [n=jgraham at nat/redhat/x-b2738e0a835a1751] has quit "Ex-Chat"
17:29 < mmcgrath> grr, I see Development/SteeringCommittee has some links that didn't convert right.
17:29 < ivazquez> BRs didn't convert properly.
17:29 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: as in "<BR>" ?
17:29 < jwb> mmcgrath, i do thanks
17:29 < couf> Anchors() either
17:30 < ivazquez> [[BR]] in moin, but yes.
17:30 < mmcgrath> ahh, k.
17:30 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: add that to the ticket if its not there already.
17:30 < jwb> mmcgrath, the schedule page looks ood
17:30 < jwb> er, odd
17:30 < ivazquez> Yup. Just looking through a few others...
17:30 < mmcgrath> jwb: add the link to https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/31
17:30 < mmcgrath> couf: add Anchors() to https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/31
17:30 < mmcgrath> :-P
17:30 < mmcgrath> y'all get the idea.
17:31 < mmcgrath> There's going to be stuff that we can fix everywhere. but its likely every team will have to make a few changes to the wiki.
17:31 < jwb> mmcgrath, do you want me to fix the page?
17:31 < jwb> mmcgrath, or should an import script be doing that all?
17:31 < mmcgrath> jwb: hmm, naw.  add it to the page.
17:31 < mmcgrath> err add it to the ticket.
17:31 < jwb> ok
17:32 < couf> mmcgrath: ah one more thing, I started a discusion on fedora-trans-list to see how L10N wants to do wiki translations from now on
17:32 < ianweller> hi
17:32 < jwb> i gotta head out, but i'll do that this evening
17:32 < mmcgrath> its possible that page is doing something unique and just needs a manual tweak.  But its more likely that whatever is making that page look wrong, is causing other pages to look wrong too.
17:32 < mmcgrath> jwb: thanks.
17:32 < jwb> np
17:32 < couf> it still needs to converge to something, but it'll get there
17:32 < mmcgrath> couf: yeah, I talked to the suse guys about that... one sec.
17:32 -!- jwb is now known as jwb_gone
17:32 < mmcgrath> couf: so if you go here - http://www.opensuse.org/
17:32 < mmcgrath> see the middle link?
17:33 < couf> yeah, went there this afternoon
17:33 < mmcgrath> couf: so yeah, we'll probably try to do something like that.  It won't be available from the initial release.
17:33 < mmcgrath> but hopefully not too long after that.
17:33  * ricky is very impressed by their l10n.
17:33 < mmcgrath> we basically have to get one wiki for each language.
17:34 < mmcgrath> and, AFAIK, thats the way its done.  wikipedia does it that same way.
17:34 < couf> heh, even better :-)
17:34 < couf> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-April/msg00160.html btw
17:35 < mmcgrath> cool
17:35 < mmcgrath> poelcat: have you had a chance to look at the sections of the wiki you use?  How do they look?
17:36 < ianweller> mmcgrath: i'm checking artwork now
17:36 < mmcgrath> ianweller: yeah let me know about that.  We'd talked a bit about attachments and stuff.
17:36 < mmcgrath> what are we going to do with art's attachments?
17:36  * couf got to run, sorry folks
17:37 < poelcat> mmcgrath: i looked a while back... i'm assuming most of the stuff that doesn't convert right I can just fix
17:37 < poelcat> and it isn't that much I don't think
17:37 < mmcgrath> poelcat: k
17:37 < mmcgrath> couf: later!
17:37 < poelcat> a few pages w/ attachments, but I'll just redo those
17:37 < ricky> Before we actually run the migration script, I'm wondering what kind of moin cleanup we can start doing to make it easier.
17:37 < ianweller> i think for attachments, we should just upload images with the filenames as is, for duplicates check them with a hash, and if the hash differs rename it slightly
17:38 < ricky> (Whether it's deleting old pages or centralizing on one type of markup, or whatever)
17:38 < ianweller> ricky: that seems like a very good idea
17:38 -!- couf [n=bart at fedora/couf] has quit "leaving"
17:38 < ricky> Renaming wiki attachments?  :)
17:38 < mmcgrath> ianweller: give me a page with a bunch of attachments on it (an art one) and how you'd suggest we upload them?
17:39 < ianweller> another way to do attachments would be something along the lines of [page name]_[attachment name]
17:39  * mmcgrath just wants to walk through how it'd work.
17:39 < ianweller> i'm not exactly sure. i would highly recommend that the attachments are uploaded through the upload interface somehow, so that nothing breaks massively
17:40 < mmcgrath> k, I'll try to spend some more time on that then.
17:40 < poelcat> mmcgrath: what about concept of 'categories'
17:40 < ianweller> maybe the api has something for that
17:40 -!- jeff_hann [n=arares at 89.40.98.185] has joined #fedora-meeting
17:40 < poelcat> mmcgrath: how do they carry over?
17:41 < mmcgrath> ianweller: can speak to that better then I can.  I know mediawiki has them.
17:41 < poelcat> i notice the BugZapper pages carry the category at the bottom of the page, but it no longer links
17:41 < mmcgrath> ianweller: talk about categories a bit.
17:41 < mmcgrath> poelcat: please add categories to - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/31 if you get a moment
17:42 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at fedora/nim-nim] has quit Remote closed the connection
17:43 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: ?
17:43 < mmcgrath> err ianweller
17:43 < mmcgrath> ianweller: ?
17:44 < mmcgrath> poelcat: well, they have them and I'll try to get that all migrated as well.
17:45 < mmcgrath> So does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about?
17:45 < poelcat> mmcgrath: for pages that don't look that good what is the type of stuff that you can fix
17:45 < poelcat> vs. stuff we need to manually fix
17:46 < mmcgrath> poelcat: I've kind of been taking it a page at a time when its reported.  I'll take a look and make an educated guess if what I see is something weird, or something I suspect would be everywhere.
17:46 < poelcat> the most obvious stuff i see is font sizing and admonitions that don't carry over
17:46 < ivazquez> Right now the script does a brute force search-and-replace. Anything that needs state can't be fixed.
17:47 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: "needs state" ?
17:47 < ianweller> hi
17:47 < ivazquez> Like problems that only occur in a block.
17:47 < ianweller> oh yeah mediawiki definitely has categories
17:47 < ivazquez> If we can't solve it when the block is opened or closed then it can't be fixed automatically.
17:47 < ianweller> bascially you put [[Category:Cat name]] at the bottom of a page, or actually, wherever
17:47 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: yeah, my python-fu has been a bit weak with that stuff.
17:48 < mmcgrath> ivazquez: do you have any interest / time to work on stuff like that?
17:48 < ianweller> going to /wiki/Category:Cat_name would show all the pages in that category. you can also add a description
17:48 < ivazquez> That whole script needs to be rewritten into a state machine, but I'm not sure that the effort is worth it.
17:48 < ianweller> mmcgrath: that's how categories work
17:48 < ricky> Hmm.
17:48 < mmcgrath> ianweller: how do you put a page into a category?
17:48 < ianweller> 16:47:53 < ianweller> bascially you put [[Category:Cat name]] at the bottom of a page, or actually, wherever
17:48 < mmcgrath> and to categories need to be created?
17:48 < ianweller> no they're created automatically
17:48 < mmcgrath> oh oh.
17:48 < mmcgrath> k
17:48 < ricky> If somebody can write a moin -> docbook convertor, how hard would a moin -> mediawiki syntax one be?
17:49 < mmcgrath> ricky: the moin -> docbook converter was very basic.
17:49 < ianweller> i don't think the docbook converter accounted for nearly everything
17:49 < ianweller> mmcgrath: how are we currently doing html blocks
17:49 < mmcgrath> and the moin -> mediawiki is doable, just needs more eyes and stuff on it.
17:49 < ianweller> they seem to not be working.
17:49 < ricky> Ohh, so it worked for subset of moin syntax that docs used?
17:49 < mmcgrath> ianweller: how are we converting them?
17:49 < ianweller> yeah
17:49 < ianweller> are we?
17:50 < mmcgrath> right now I'm not touching it.  There's actually a bug open to not allow html in the future.  It just never got done on Moin.
17:50 < mmcgrath> there's a security issue there.
17:50 < ianweller> ok good point
17:50 < mmcgrath> ricky: can you verify that mediawiki also suffers from that cross site script issue?
17:50  * mmcgrath assumes it does.
17:50 < ianweller> i notice that mostly html is just for headers and such. should we create some sort of template for a standardized project page header
17:50 < ricky> mmcgrath: Don't think it does.
17:50 < ricky> (At least not by default)
17:51 < ianweller> heh. you *can* make it vulnerable, but we don't enable it by default
17:51 < ianweller> :D
17:51 < mmcgrath> heh
17:51 < ianweller> it's like linux file permissions
17:51 < ricky> Moin didn't either, until we added a parser for raw HTML
17:51 < ianweller> anywho. i would vote for not enabling raw html at all
17:51 < ianweller> MW has built in support for div tags and whatnot, for styling
17:52 < mmcgrath> ianweller: I'll want to talk to you about some of that support.  Currently the script doesn't support it. mostly because I'm not sure what the MW markup looks like for it.
17:52 < ianweller> it's completely and utterly different for nearly every case.  it makes me want to explode
17:52 < ianweller> no actually there is a system, it's just silly
17:52  * ianweller finds the help page for it
17:53 < mmcgrath> ianweller: not now, but sometime next week we'll go over that stuff.
17:53 < ianweller> i just don't particularly like doing tables
17:53 < mmcgrath> We're almost out of time (only about 10 minutes left)
17:53 < ianweller> oh ok
17:53 < mmcgrath> ianweller: I'm with you there.  Some people seem to insist though :)
17:53 < mmcgrath> so anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
17:53 < ianweller> let's press fast forward on the agenda then
17:54 < mmcgrath> I think we're done with whats on the wiki page anyway.
17:54 < mmcgrath> anyone have other concerns / questions?
17:54 < ianweller> well i think all that's left is whatever you guys need to do on the infrastructure end, wrangling mediawiki-openid and related out of athimm's hands, and fixing all the syntax
17:55 < ianweller> about a month before we switch over the wiki we should ask *everybody* to check wiki pages they think are important, and if they don't look good on mediawiki, they need to be changed on moin
17:55 < poelcat> mmcgrath: for pages that need fixing... do we ad them to the main ticket, file a new ticket ?
17:55 < mmcgrath> poelcat: just add them to that ticket.
17:55 < ianweller> ticket 31, right?
17:55 < mmcgrath> ianweller: yeah, I really want everyone to know what the wiki will look like well before we do the actual conversion.
17:55 < ianweller> oh and i added a post-migration ticket (somewhere)
17:56 < ianweller> .ticket 511
17:56 < mmcgrath> <nod>
17:56 < zodbot> ianweller: #511 (Post-import wiki to-do list) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/511
17:56 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at fedora/nim-nim] has joined #fedora-meeting
17:56 < mmcgrath> ianweller: thats for stuff that needs to be done after we migrate right?
17:56 < ianweller> yes
17:57 < ianweller> pre-migration or during migration would still be ticket 31, i guess
17:57 < mmcgrath> <nod>
17:57 < mmcgrath> worksforme.
17:57 < mmcgrath> Ok, so we've only got a minute or two left.  Is there anything else we'd like to discuss?
17:57 < ianweller> everything else i wanna discuss we can do outside the meeting
17:57 < ianweller> maybe in #fedora-websites
17:57 < mmcgrath> <nod>
17:58 < ianweller> alright i'd call it good. i don't see anything else
17:58 < mmcgrath> Cool, if no one has anything else I'll close the meeting in 30.
17:59 < ianweller> is someone gonna get a log of this and post it to the list?
18:00 < mmcgrath> ricky: mind doing the honors?
18:00 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Meeting End
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